Analyze This Guys....Suggestions are appreciated. :)

[Hootie]

Hey guys-Looking for some feedback concerning my project list on my 71 911T Targa (stock 2.2 currently). Take in consideration on your feedback I am looking for a lightweight street toy with a possibility of autox/DE in the future. Also some of these items came with car but are not installed. If I forgot to add something, let me know or if I'm completely off-base...let me know that too.

Rebuild Suspension-currently stock and probably old:
1) replace all bushings Poly vs stock (Any suggestions? )
2) Replace torsion bars (new sway-a-ways -not installed)
frt 22mm/rr 25mm
3) Turbo tie-rod (new-not installed)
4) Koni's frt & rr (used but don't look bad-not installed)
5) Strut brace (new-not installed)
6) Sway bars - None (Any suggestions on mfg/diameters?)
7) Adjustable spring plates?

Body: (I like the RS look and that's where I am headed)
1) steel RS flares in the rear
2) ducktail
3) RS front & rear f'glass bumper swap
4) AND convert to soft window (yeh, I've seen the archives)
5) retain original signal yellow color
6) replace all weatherstripping (old & brittle)
7) black out targa bar

Wheels/Tires (fuchs)
frnt: 15x7 205-50-15
rr: 15x8 225-50-15

Interior: gut it and replace with ltwt RS panels, replace seats, etc.

Engine: run it the way it is now-top end was rebuilt 12/01 by PO but eventually want to swap in another.... undecided between 3.0/3.2/3.6

Transmission/clutch: seems fine now...will find out more this spring when I put more miles on it. Upgrade to 915 with engine upgrade?

Brakes (stock right now with new lines just added and cylinders rebuilt last year) work fine. Upgrade to 930's with engine swap?

I know I threw a lot of info on here but want to make sure I'm headed in the right direction and won't need to backtrack too much in the future.
TIA

[Halm]

Kirk,

I appreciate the saying that "one man's steak is another man's hamburger", but why do you want to modify it? It looks great as it now sits!!! Sure, tighten up the suspension and maybe freshen up the paint. But it is not an RS now and never will be.

Just my opinion, but I REALLY like it now.

[Jack Olsen]

22/25 seems an odd torsion bar combination. I would think something closer to 21/27 would be better.

Also, continuing to find tires for 15-inch wheels might make you crazy, as the years pass. Why not 16's?

[Hootie]

Jack-the 22/25's came with the car...so right now they're freebies sort of speaking...what about upgrading the rear to a 27 and keeping the 22 up front...would that work?

Hal...the pics look great but there's definitely work to be done and I know when I start taking her apart, other fixes are going to pop also. I haven't commited to the RS look yet but strongly considering.

[Joe911]

Kirk – sounds like a new toy. Spend some time driving it before you tear it apart. My first Porsche was a 1970 2.2E Targa back in the early 1980s. I loved it – never did any modifications other than replacing the 14x5” wheels with 15x6 BBS and a set of 195/60 tires.

One extremely important consideration you did not relate is how much do you want to spend and what is the street/track ratio. Based on my experience – don’t rush into tearing it apart – enjoy it with few modifications for the first year. You will then have a better perspective on things.

Here are my thoughts - I have 22/27 torsion bars on a 1969 coupe, Weltmeister sway bars 22/19 with Koni sport gas shocks. The 22/27 works OK - I have a slight oversteer but attribute it to too much toe-out in the rear (for autocrossing). More stiffness in the rear would induce more oversteer. The solid bushings contribute to a harsh ride as much an anything I suspect. Be sure to use the street composition bushings and you might consider going with 21mm torsion bars in front along with the 25mm already installed. The 22mm fronts will resell easily and provide you with $$ towards 21mm bars. You could also find stock "S" sway bars in e-bay or on the PP used parts forum - or a set of used 19mm Weltmeisters. My current early car is an “S” and with the stock sway-bars (15mm I think) – it handled very well and was a pleasure to drive. The ride has definitely gotten harsher with my current set-up so really think about what you will use the car for. This is why I suggest you drive it through the first spring/summer before you tear into it. You will find enough little projects to keep you busy. Another argument for not going to far with the stiffness is that it is an early Targa and will suffer from some chassis twisting. I believe that the early Targa were not as reinforced as the later Targa (like my Carrera – which still rattles the inside door on hard corning on rough roads).

Personally, I like the early look and you can get 15x7 with 215/60 or 225/50 tires on the rear, which is plenty of rubber for street/DE use. Also more fun on weekend drives when sliding the car occurs at lower corning speeds. The 2.2 engine is not a powerhouse but if it runs well and reliably I would do the chassis/interior mods first. You could still have a great time at a DE with the 2.2. Do you have the alloy “S” brakes with the 3.5 caliper bolt spacing? Personally I love the 901 transmission – definitely shifts better than my 915! … although I do get confused on the shift patterns sometimes when I switch back and forth between them.

Somewhat rambling but I hope it was useful as I have been where you are now. Also read over the BBS archives – there are volumes of information there.

[dtw]

Kirk,
I'm all for modifications, but that car looks like a keeper. If it was me, I'd work on restoring it to original condition and do a few upgrades (back to chrome horn grilles, maybe do some H1s or H4s, some Hella 128s). That example you've got is a star just like it is. If you want a toy, find a good bastardized coupe out there- they're a dime a dozen. Toss a big motor in it and have fun.

The mods you propose by the way, would be too much. Blacking out the bar is at odds with the soft window conversion, and both those mods are at odds with an RS clone. Too much going on! Narrow it down some, if you insist on changing this car.

[roGERK]

Hello Kirk,

An interesting list. Do remember my own sympathies go with preservation and restoration rather than trying to make a rather beautiful old car something it never was, and (despite your best efforts) never will be.

OK, that said, onto your list...

Rebuild Suspension-currently stock and probably old:
1) replace all bushings Poly vs stock (Any suggestions? )

The consensus is the poly bushes are great for competition use, but really irritating for street use. Its difficult to love a car that keeps squeaking all the time.

2) Replace torsion bars (new sway-a-ways -not installed)
frt 22mm/rr 25mm

Ur... why? The chances are the originals are fine. One of the many wonders of torsion bar suspension is just how reliable it is, maybe the most reliable system ever invented. I dunno why you would bother to change the bars...

3) Turbo tie-rod (new-not installed)

Good mod - quite straightforward to do and sharpens up the steering a lot.

4) Koni's frt & rr (used but don't look bad-not installed)

Yeah, why not, especially if you have them already!

5) Strut brace (new-not installed)

Yeah, OK.

6) Sway bars - None (Any suggestions on mfg/diameters?)

Oh dear, that is an omission. I'd find out the diameter of the stock sway bars in the early 1970s and maybe go 1mm thicker.

7) Adjustable spring plates?

Urrrrrrr - not a priority.


Body: (I like the RS look and that's where I am headed)

Oh dear. This is a really good way of devaluing what appears to be a nice car.

1) steel RS flares in the rear

Nope - difficult to return to stock.

2) ducktail

Possibly - keep your old engine lid though.

3) RS front & rear f'glass bumper swap

Nice one, but keep the originals.

4) AND convert to soft window (yeh, I've seen the archives)

HUH?????????? You are stiffening your suspension and (the strut bar) stiffening the chassis. Now your making the whole rear of the car less rigid. Also less waterproof. Also more noisy.

Sorry but I don't understand that modification at all.


5) retain original signal yellow color

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good man!

6) replace all weatherstripping (old & brittle)

Great idea - improved looks, improved water-proofing, reduced wind noise. GOOD ONE!

7) black out targa bar

Essential!!!! Should add 40mph to the top speed, and greatly improve the cornering, breaking, and acceleration.

Seriously, why bother?

Wheels/Tires (fuchs)
frnt: 15x7 205-50-15
rr: 15x8 225-50-15

Mummmmm. Not so sure - spoils the looks a bit (in my eyes), fun if you get a flat tyre... Why not just get a pair of wides for auto-cross work and stick to stock (or as near as possible to stock, which is getting difficult) for general use?

Interior: gut it and replace with ltwt RS panels, replace seats, etc.

OK, but save your original interior ready for sale time. Incidently, one of the cheapest and most effective ways of making a 911 quicker is to replace the very HEAVY original front seats with super lightweight racing items. Improved acceleration, braking and handling, and really easy to go back to the stock look when its time to sell, or go on a long drive somewhere.

Engine: run it the way it is now-top end was rebuilt 12/01 by PO but eventually want to swap in another.... undecided between 3.0/3.2/3.6

Oh dear... Just run her as she is and see what you think - these are pretty lively little cars out of the box. If your ambitions are headed towards auto-X and competition use, you might be better off in the long run getting two cars rather than a single compromised one that turns into an incredible money pit...

Transmission/clutch: seems fine now...will find out more this spring when I put more miles on it. Upgrade to 915 with engine upgrade?

Yeah, probably essential to handle the extra torque/power. Damn shame really, as the 901 is a fine transmission.

Brakes (stock right now with new lines just added and cylinders rebuilt last year) work fine. Upgrade to 930's with engine swap?

Yes, essential if you are going to have more power. Again its a shame, as they appear to be fine at the moment.

Good luck to you - do try and find some time to drive and enjoy this machine over the next year rather than spending every week-end under it!

Caretake,

- roGER

[70flatsix]

Kirk,
There are a number of differences between a hard and a soft rear window targa. In addition to how the soft/foldable rear window attaches to the targa bar and the car, the targa bar itself is different. There are two tensioner handles built into the underside of the targa bar. These tensioners are needed to "relax" the rear window for easier removal and installation. Fasteners also need to be installed to hold on the boot that fits over and protects the soft rear window when it is folded down. The fasteners go inside and outside the car. And, there are a couple of drawbacks to having a soft rear window targa. Security is less. Noise levels increase dramatically with the rear window folded down. Water leaks in even easier. It takes a good 8-10 minutes to put-up or take-down the rear window. And, the rear window scratches easily and must be protected on both sides when folded down. But if you do convert, you'll be the envy of all the other targa owers you know!
Carrera Charlie (a pelican bb member) was in the process of converting his targa to a soft rear window. You might try contacting him for a project update. If you do the conversion and install a duck tail, I'd love to see a picture or two! I've considered adding one to my car, but I have never seen a soft window targa with a duck tail and don't want to screw up how the car looks!
Good Luck with your project and enjoy your car!!
Rocky