Help with Power Window Regulator

[iwhelan]

Hello,

I have been reading lots of threads about this, but some things are still not clear.

I'm trying to fix a window that suddenly won't go down on my '87 911. The motor does run after I pulled it out of the gearbox by undoing the 2 torx bolts. The window is fully up and taped. Regulator is still in the door.

Now I can't get the motor back into mesh with the gearbox, but I guess it doesn't matter because obviously something is jammed on the regulator or the gearbox which is still attached to the regulator. However, I cannot remove the wire connector from the motor. I have the motor in my hand, and still cannot understand how it disconnects. It seems like something has to happen to let it release from the prongs. Help, please?

Aside from that, I'm trying to figure out what to do next. I have removed the six bolts that holds the regulator/gearbox assembly to the door.

I can move the regulator around a little so that I can see the bolts (through the hole where you can usually see the regulator and gearbox gear meshing) holding the gearbox to the regulator. I'm assuming that I should go ahead and remove these bolts and remove the gearbox next?

Once I do this, will I be able to manipulate the regulator and somehow slide it off of the track at the bottom of the glass and then pull it out of the door without lowering the window glass?

Thanks!

[jlex]

I've been experiencing an intermittent no go problem with the passenger window on my '88. Switches check out good. I was able to get it operating again by manually cranking it using the hex tool provided in the tool bag. I'm thinking the regulator mechanism gets bound up every once in a while. If you're trying to get the gears to mesh, try the manual crank tool. Look to your owner's manual for instructions. It has to be inserted into the gear that's just in back of the small tweeter speaker. Must be inserted all the way. Never did get to the point of having to remove the motor or regulator, so I can't help you there.

[Discseven]

You did not mention if you checked the window switch or if when you say the "motor runs" it is running by operating the switch. If switch is not feeding power... need to determine if it is bad switch---change switch to known good switch to test. (I don't recall if when a driver's side has a control switch for passenger window if BOTH switches need to work for passenger's side to work window.) Assuming switch is good, and it operates motor when out of gear box---but reg does not move---it's possible the plastic wheel gear has broken teeth. Here are some pics from '80. (Not sure if matches your '87.) Before taking the whole thing apart... will suggest sorting out if it is switch and/or wire issue. If there's consistent power going to motor and it's not working the window... then I'd test the motor with wires directly from a battery. Either hook jumper wires directly to motor (know you said you can't disconnect motor... but when/if you can.) Or determine what wires run from the switch to the motor and connect jumper wires to those. If regulator is loose in door... would only do short burst of power to test reg operation as things might get messy inside door if reg is run too long.

[iwhelan]

I wish that I could manually crank the mechanism and see if I can get it unbound (if it is bound up), but it seems like Porsche only started with this in '88. There is no tweeter hole on my '87 and no place to insert a hex key into that gear. Thanks for the reply though.

Originally Posted by jlex

I've been experiencing an intermittent no go problem with the passenger window on my '88. Switches check out good. I was able to get it operating again by manually cranking it using the hex tool provided in the tool bag. I'm thinking the regulator mechanism gets bound up every once in a while. If you're trying to get the gears to mesh, try the manual crank tool. Look to your owner's manual for instructions. It has to be inserted into the gear that's just in back of the small tweeter speaker. Must be inserted all the way. Never did get to the point of having to remove the motor or regulator, so I can't help you there.

[iwhelan]

Thanks Karl. I should have specified that the switches do run the motor now that is out of the gearbox. I'm not sure if it is a bad plastic gear in the gearbox, but I guess I'll find out once I can get things apart. It seems like for whatever reason when the motor is in mesh with the regulator, it can't overcome whatever is jamming the regulator.

[Dpmulvan]

Not sure about a 87 but early cars have an issue with spring pivot breaking off, see if you find a small bolt like cylinder with a slot in the top somewhere in the bottom of your door. To remove regulator/ seperate from glass et you might have to remove the window frame,side window et.

[iwhelan]

I did look inside the door for the spring pivot and didn't find anything. I haven't heard that I would have to remove the window frame to remove the window regulator. I think it's just a question of whether the window should stay up or be moved down. Once the 6 bolts are removed, and after the motor/gearbox are off of the regulator I think I should be able to move the whole assembly down, but the question is whether I should do this or not.

Thanks!

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by iwhelan

I haven't heard that I would have to remove the window frame to remove the window regulator. I think it's just a question of whether the window should stay up or be moved down.

Window frame does not have to come out of either coupe or Targa to remove regulator. (Glass with or without its track does need to be disconnected from regulator---I've found it easier to keep the glass in it's track and bend the wheel channel open to release one wheel. Channel has to be bent back after reinstall. This = much simpler than dealing with putting glass correctly back in track it sits in---particularly with Targa.) Door's access hole---in '80--- that reg has to come out of... it's tight fit but doable extraction when reg is in the right position to escape. Don't recall but believe escape is made when reg is in fully down position (as in glass/window would be all the way down were it attached to reg)---not sure about this. EDIT: Window has to be positioned up from bottom slightly to deal with opening channel for wheel to escape it. If you do remove reg, suggest taking sequence pics as reg escapes. You'll want same positioning for it going back in.) From what has been said, and given all electrical connections being in good order, it sounds like plastic gear wheel is missing teeth. Another scenario... the cables that feed into the door's front from the body should run up the inside wall of the door and be retained against the inside wall (of the door) by the bendy tabs attached along the wall of the door. If those cables are not secured by those bendy tabs, its possible for them to get caught up in the ax-teeth. This could cause a jammed ax... (which could lead to broken wheel teeth.) If a cable gets "involved" with the ax, there might be some electrical issues with window and/or mirror depending on the extent of the "involvement." Am not sure a hand can reach the inside forward wall to feel if the cables are retained as they should be when the reg is in there. Is easy enough to check. Regardless of where you go with this... the security of these cables (against door's inside forward wall) is something to ensure. Note that all my input is based on an '80 door.

[iwhelan]

Thanks, I am not sure why teeth would suddenly be broken on the plastic gear in the gearbox. The window worked perfectly well, went up and the next time I tried using it, it would not move, with no movement of the motor. I thought the motor died or the switches failed. It was only when I removed the motor and it moved that I found that it is still working under power. It just can't seem to provide enough torque to move the window so there has to be something jamming it up.

I guess the only thing left is to remove the gearbox from the regulator and try to remove the regulator. The cabling is still where is supposed to be in the door. Everything is very tidy in there so far.

I just don't understand why some people are saying the window needs to be halfway down, and some instructions say it has to remain completely up.

[Dpmulvan]

The pivot bolt probably snapped off and got stuck in there. That pivot keeps tension on a small coil springs which helps the motor raise the window. There are two openings in the window channel where the regulator wheels need to slide out to get the regulator free. Putting the window down a little more than halfway should put the regulator wheels close to the two openings.

[Discseven]

Good cables are where they should be. That rules that out.

Broken teeth is speculation at this point. If motor works (when installed) and window doesn't go anywhere... there's justification for missing teeth. Given your sensing a "jam," missing wheel teeth can be set aside for time being to diagnose other things...

1. Glass tilted in channels/tracks. This can cause glass to jam. Assuming motor is not in gear box, I believe glass should be moveable. Assuming glass is not jammed all the way up, does it go up and down by hand? Jammed glass-in-track comes loose by pulling up on either front or rear of glass. (If there's a "pop" feel when pulling up on glass from front or back... it was likely jammed. Confirmation is instantly made by checking rock/tilt of glass in channel. Too much tiltability means rear vertical channel needs to be adjusted closer to front vertical channel.) I've never heard of felt/material in a glass channel coming loose and causing a jam but that's a possibility. (Good condition window motors & gearing are relatively powerful. If there's a glass jam and working motor cannot move the glass... I'd consider it a substantial jam---meaning it should not be easily loosened.)*

(I've been on return trips into door and without reservation... they suck.)

If window can be moved freely by hand... then felt issue is ruled out and following 3 are unlikely to be found:

2. Wheel has come loose/off in channel and jammed scissor. There's one wheel up top, two at bottom. Orientation is seen in first pic post #3. If window moves by hand but with an odd and perhaps uneven resistance... high probability of it being wheel issue.... or...

3. Glass sits in a metal channel that tends to rust. When it does rust, it weakens and deforms the wheel-channel attached below it. Once deformed enough, the scissor wheels can no longer travel freely through their channel. This can cause a jam. Glass and wheel channels can be inspected by looking through access hole in door. Without visual access to channels, moving the glass by hand can reveal this being a possibility. Depending on how far a channel has rusted & deformed... moving the glass by hand will have a spongy feel---(as wheel channel deforms under hand pressure.) At some point, deformation can cause a solid jam due to the channel being "tangled." Sometimes the wheels come out of the channel and the window falls into the door. There are a variety of scenarios that occur when this channel rusts out.

4. Ax gear has caught something and jammed. Would suspect this translating into glass that won't move at all.


* If there is a substantial jam, it's possible the motor kept pushing and the worm gear in the gear housing either broke or loosened some wheel teeth. For sure you don't want to hear this! But... IF there was a solid jam, better to check the gearbox while the door's ALREADY apart than have to deal with a return trip later.

[sky1jord]

This should help:

Porsche 911 Window Regulator Replacement | 911 (1965-89) - 930 Turbo (1975-89) | Pelican Parts DIY Maintenance Article,

along with scads of threads obtained by searching this forum for "window regulator", particularly here:

Installing Window Regulator

The regulator is removable, but it takes a lot of patience, fortitude, and an uncommonly large supply of four-letter words.

FWIW, in my case, the motor's gearbox was jammed/stripped, leading me to a new motor/gearbox assembly which fixed my problem. My guess is that's where your problem is, which is why so many replacement regulator motors have been sold for these cars. I would also guess that your regulator is Ok, they appear to be pretty robust except for the spring retaining pins that seem to habitually shear off.

Good Luck

[iwhelan]

Ok, so it seems like the problem lies with my motor. I have been able to take the motor apart, but the bearing on the bottom does not spin on the shaft. I'm assuming that this is not correct, right? I ask this because I'm just making sure it is not supposed to just spin within the bottom of the housing.

Is there some way to replace this bearing or should I just try to get another motor at this point?

Thanks for the help!

Edit:
Hopefully this will help someone.

Just from looking at photos, it seems like the '88+ motor has 10 teeth on the gear vs 8 on the '87 motor.