Optima Red Top- 4 years old, battery tender but one discharge and now beyond DEAD?

[gsxrken]

I have a 2010 date coded Red Top that is typically on a battery tender and leaves a climate-controlled life most of the year. So it's out of any warranty pro-rated or otherwise. I completely discharged it with a power drain and it was in that condition for maybe 2 weeks before I tried to use the car and noticed it.

I cannot bring it back from the dead. My battery tender would not even sense enough voltage to start, and my modern 10A charger has been charging away at around 8A for an entire day, but when I reinstall the battery it will barely power the headlights. The starter doesn't even click. I have it back on the charger and it's still taking 8A. Not too hot either, just warm.

The charging directions are not arcane. But this is lousy for a $225 battery.


OPTIMA® REDTOP® Charging Information

The following charging methods are recommended to ensure a long battery life. Always use a voltage-regulated charger, with voltage limits set as described below.
REDTOP® Type: 34 & 34R - 34/78 - 78 - 25 & 35 - 75/25
These batteries are designed for engine starting applications. They are NOT recommended or warranted for use in deep-cycle applications.
Recommended charging information:
Alternator:
13.3 to 15.0 volts, no amperage limit.
Battery Charger:
13.8 to 15.0 volts, 10 amps maximum, approximately for 6-12 hours.
Rapid Recharge:
Maximum voltage 15.6 volts (regulated), no current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F (51.7°C). Charge until current drops below 1 amp.
Float Charge:
13.2 to 13.8 volts, 1 amp maximum current, time indefinite (at lower voltage).

Strictly adhere to all limits.

[911pcars]

Optima batteries have always required their own charging procedure if discharged below a certain threshold. Perhaps this section lifted from your text provides a clue:

"Rapid Recharge:
Maximum voltage 15.6 volts (regulated), no current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F (51.7°C). Charge until current drops below 1 amp."

This procedure requires a charger most repair shops have. Take your battery there to jolt it to a threshold where a trickle charger can provide a safe charging current.

Sherwood

[Josh D]

^ X2 what Sherman said. I drained an Optima red and tried recharging it unsuccessfully. Took it in to FLAPS for warranty replacement. They were able to recharge it using a specific procedure. It's been good ever since.

I'm sure an online search would give details of the procedure.

[Howard M]

I think Optima recommends hooking up the dead battery in parallel to a good one, to give it a very high current charge.

[kuba_kuba]

The parallel arrangement worked for me...

[daleflesburg]

Optima makes a charger specifically for their batteries. Since I have two Optima, and my son has one, I bought their specific charger. It charged a battery that was literally at 0%. I charged another battery that was not discharged but was low. Expensive but cheaper than a new battery and it worked. Really a great little charger.

Go to Optimabatteries.com

[andybullen]

I have a brand new blue top that's dead too - will have to try this out

[wwest]

2A trickle charger and it can take 3-4 days to bring it to life. Then you can use a SMART charger to bring it up to ~90%

[JohnJL]

do the parallel thing.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

do the parallel thing.

NO! NOTE! NYET!

Danger, DANGER!

Putting a fully charged battery in parallel with a fully discharged battery might result in a high level of outgassing of BOTH batterys.


EXPLOSIVE!

[wwest]

Originally Posted by kuba_kuba

The parallel arrangement worked for me...

You were LUCKY!

[911s55]

I had a similar issue with an Interstate 911 battery on a Battery Tender, actually 2 batteries in my '71. There was a serious down drain from the Battery tender hooked up to my right side battery, killed the battery, dribbled acid into the tray area and the Tender died. Although they were all good for an unbelievable 9 years before puking, I'm thinking the Tender was the culprit and the left side battery with the harness and power connects was still good. Went with Mazda type Westco batteries and a CTEK 3300 maintainer/charger. So far so good, but it's early

[dad911]

Originally Posted by wwest

NO! NOTE! NYET!

Danger, DANGER!

Putting a fully charged battery in parallel with a fully discharged battery might result in a high level of outgassing of BOTH batterys.


EXPLOSIVE!

I agree with you, but it was debated here before with 'Optima Jim' How to Recharge a Deeply-Discharged Optima Battery

I gave up on Optima batteries, as did quite a few others around here. Couldn't get them to take a charge. Jim wouldn't help me, and wouldn't help Byron Group Buy Not Honored

[cantdrv55]

My experience with Optima batteries have not been very good. One died in less than 12 months. The replacement, under warranty, died after three years. Fool me once...

I recently bought a Bosch at Pep Boys, fitment code 91, that's slightly larger than the Optima red and about a hundred bucks cheaper.

[JohnJL]

Originally Posted by wwest

NO! NOTE! NYET!

Danger, DANGER!

Putting a fully charged battery in parallel with a fully discharged battery might result in a high level of outgassing of BOTH batterys.


EXPLOSIVE!

You may be right, I may be crazy...for following the manufacturer's instructions! Here is a snip from Optima's website this morning. These instructions also come with the battery.






You may indeed be, right that it was a dangerous situation, I'll have to defer to your knowledge of the situation. I don't know any better. The manufacturer however recommends that procedure and its worked for me and others. From the instructions they do seem willing to put their customer in close enugh proximity to be monitoring the battery's temperature and their judgement to moderate the charging process.

Perhaps you are both right...I do repsect your encyclopedic knowledge and have benefitted from your advice here before (and hopefully again!)

I'd give it a try, putting perhaps both batteries under a bench so if things go wrong the outcome is somewhat contained.

I have had middling success with Optimas, both yellow and red. A little better with Odysseys and very happy with Brailles.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by 911s55

I had a similar issue with an Interstate 911 battery on a Battery Tender, actually 2 batteries in my '71. There was a serious down drain from the Battery tender hooked up to my right side battery, killed the battery, dribbled acid into the tray area and the Tender died. Although they were all good for an unbelievable 9 years before puking, I'm thinking the Tender was the culprit and the left side battery with the harness and power connects was still good. Went with Mazda type Westco batteries and a CTEK 3300 maintainer/charger. So far so good, but it's early

Much more likely that a cell shorted out(***) in the "right side" battery, the "left side" battery began "dumping" it's charge into the now 10 volt battery, "boiling" the electrolyte.

*** Common failure mode with long term use...metallic plate debris falls to the bottom, eventually piling up high to short a cell. Sometimes shaking/dropping the battery clears the debris and you can extend the battery life somewhat.
,

[wwest]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

You may be right, I may be crazy...for following the manufacturer's instructions!

You may indeed be, right that it was a dangerous situation, I'll have to defer to your knowledge of the situation. I don't know any better. The manufacturer however recommends that procedure and its worked for me and others. From the instructions they do seem willing to put their customer in close enugh proximity to be monitoring the battery's temperature and their judgement to moderate the charging process.

Perhaps you are both right...I do repsect your encyclopedic knowledge and have benefitted from your advice here before (and hopefully again!)

I'd give it a try, putting perhaps both batteries under a bench so if things go wrong the outcome is somewhat contained.

I have had middling success with Optimas, both yellow and red. A little better with Odysseys and very happy with Brailles.

Key words from Optima...

"leave for two hours"

How long might it take for a supposedly (dead cell!) dead battery to heat up enough to begin seriously outgassing, for BOTH batteries to begin outgassing?

"monitoring frequently..."

If you're going to "walk away, leave for two hours, I would initially remain on the scene long enough to be sure the "dead" battery didn't recover to quickly. Or monitor the combined terminal voltage for the initial 30 minutes or so. Assuming the GOOD battery was already fully charged and the DEAD battery is truly DEAD the terminal voltage should remain above 12 volts.

The charged battery is in the circuit ONLY to fool the "smart" into supplying a fairly high charging voltage rather faulting.

My suggestion would be to use a "DUMB" charger, or a simple trickle charger and worry about desulfation at a later time, process.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by OptimaJim

fintstone asked me to start a thread with instructions on how to recharge a deeply-discharged (below 10.5 volts) Optima battery.

Virtually any standard automotive battery charger on the market will charge an Optima battery just fine. However, most automotive battery chargers will not charge any battery that has been discharged below 10.5 volts. If a standard flooded battery is discharged below 10.5 volts, there’s not much of a chance that it will be serviceable again. However, AGM-style batteries, like Optimas, can be recovered from a deeply-discharged state, by using an AGM-specific charger or by parallel charging.

To charge a deeply-discharged Optima with a regular charger, you can wire a second fully-charged automotive battery (12V+) to the discharged Optima in parallel (+ to + and – to –). Then hook up the charger to either battery, setting the charger at 10 amps for 2 hours and monitoring it frequently.



When the discharged Optima reaches 10.5 volts or more, remove the second battery and continue charging the Optima until fully charged.

Typically we recommend charging at a relatively low current, such as 2 amps, but when a battery has been deeply discharged, some sulfation of the battery plates may have occurred. However, if you charge at 10 amps, the higher current will help to break up sulfation that may have occurred. If you have an automatic charger, let it run until the charger indicates charging is complete. If you have a manual charger, estimate charging time by multiplying the capacity (amp hours or Ah) of the battery by 1.2 for a rough estimate of charging time in hours.

In most cases, these steps will recover an Optima battery. It’s ok for the Optima battery to get slightly warm during the charging process, but hot to the touch or hissing from the battery indicates a short and the process should be discontinued. If you are able to fully charge the battery, but it gradually loses it's charge (without any loads on it) over 12-24 hours, the battery is probably not recoverable.

If you’d rather not deal with this process, you can always take your battery to a professional battery specialist, like Interstate, who knows AGM technology. Most of them are willing to provide “charge and check” procedures for a small fee and many will provide the service for free.

If you have any other questions, I’ll do my best to answer them. I appreciate your interest in Optima batteries!

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.

You'll making several assumptions,....
DANGEROUS ASSUMPTIONS!

You're assuming that the "fully" discharged battery will not quickly accept a high current charge rate, your "hot to the touch or hissing" statement indicates that you are well aware of the potential.....

DANGER!

Set the scene: Gas water heater and/or gas furnace in an attached garage. Hook up the batteries as you state, listen/feel, no heat or hissing, walk away.

Both batteries begin "hissing", outgassing, water heater/furnace "fires", subsequent explosion ignites nearby flammable materials....entire house goes up in flames...

YOUR FAULT!


Put a "dumb"(***) trickle charger on the "dead" battery, walk away, come back in 3-4 days. Works for my lawn tractor, etc, battery every spring.

*** most "smart" chargers will "fault", give an error, if you try to charge/recover a "dead" battery..

[gsxrken]

I should update the thread- I simply left my modern "smart" charger on it for 2 days and it went from 8A to just about 0 amps. Then I put my battery tender on it and a day later the green light is showing on the battery tender. So I think (but don't know) that the battery is actually back from the dead. Of course in my haste I went out and bought another one the same day I posted this.
The thread did get interesting in the meantime.

[anguilla1980]

Any update on this, figured I'd bring this thread back from the dead lol.

My Optima that was less than 1 yr old got drained down to 0.01v due to a short that occurred. It was also like that for the past 2-3 weeks until I discovered it.

My technique (that I read online) said to use a dumb charger set to 50amp start for 15mins, then turn off and let the battery cool down, and repeat. It said to do this 4 times, I only did it twice. Then I left the battery on 10amp for 8hrs, then 2amp for a couple more. Then my multimeter said the battery was at like 12.28 (surface charge). I proceeded to hook up my Battery Tender and to my excitement, the Battery Tender sees it now and is in charging mode (verified with multimeter). What will it take until the green light goes on, a day?

My question, am I only kidding myself or will this battery just never be the same and is toast? I exported the car from the US last October and there are Optima dealers so a warranty pro-rated swap is out of the question. I'm just wondering if I can ever trust the battery again?