ROW SC - Turning my attention to suspension

[ROW911SC]

Hi All.

I've started to read through the many, many threads re: suspension upgrades because now that my two-year long repaint saga is just about finished I'm turning my attention to the last few mechanical items that I want to refresh/improve. All four calipers are being sent out to PMB for a rebuild in the coming weeks so I thought that while the car was "up" it might be a good time to incrementally work on the suspension.

I really don't want to deviate from stock too much but I would like to have the car at the correct Euro ride height. Since I would like to do this in stages, does it make sense to replace all suspension related rubber first, and then tackle the shocks and ride height in the Spring?

Could use some recommendations for sway bar bushings and any other rubber, and then some ideas for shocks. I think the car has Boge now.

Here's a pic from a few months ago; the car is further along in terms of reassembly but you can see the existing ride height, which to my knowledge has not been touched prior to my purchase of the car back in '86.

TIA

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by LenS

Hi All.

I've started to read through the many, many threads re: suspension upgrades because now that my two-year long repaint saga is just about finished I'm turning my attention to the last few mechanical items that I want to refresh/improve. All four calipers are being sent out to PMB for a rebuild in the coming weeks so I thought that while the car was "up" it might be a good time to incrementally work on the suspension.

I really don't want to deviate from stock too much but I would like to have the car at the correct Euro ride height. Since I would like to do this in stages, does it make sense to replace all suspension related rubber first, and then tackle the shocks and ride height in the Spring?

Could use some recommendations for sway bar bushings and any other rubber, and then some ideas for shocks. I think the car has Boge now.

Here's a pic from a few months ago; the car is further along in terms of reassembly but you can see the existing ride height, which to my knowledge has not been touched prior to my purchase of the car back in '86.

TIA

Hard to do better than Bilstein hd for most street use. for street use nothing wrong w/ stock bushes.

I would change the tail to a flat whale as used oe on the 3.2 Carrera, the 930 tea tray just doesn't look right on an SC/Carrera

[Driven97]

Front and rear shocks you should be able to swap without disturbing anything else, so those can be done at any time.

It makes sense to do the rubbers and ride height at the same time, as you have to pull the rear especially pretty far apart. I've never heard anything bad about the Elephant regular or sport rubber bushings, but have not used them myself. I have heard that some of the cheaper alternatives don't always fit quite as perfectly.

Pretty car, good luck.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Driven97

Front and rear shocks you should be able to swap without disturbing anything else, so those can be done at any time.

It makes sense to do the rubbers and ride height at the same time, as you have to pull the rear especially pretty far apart. I've never heard anything bad about the Elephant regular or sport rubber bushings, but have not used them myself. I have heard that some of the cheaper alternatives don't always fit quite as perfectly.

Pretty car, good luck.

Elephant sport hardness rubber is only offered for the front strut top bush and the trailing arm bush. I agree good choices for a street car.

[ROW911SC]

Thanks all for the quick response!

So exactly how many bushings are there?

And yes, even though the tea tray came with the car, and I spent quite a bit of time refurbishing it (including paint), I thought about swapping it out for a Carrera tail at some point.

[McLaren-TAG]

Got to the Elephant Racing web site and spend some time looking at their items, they have a fantastic visualization of the entire suspension and you'll see how it all works/goes together.

BTW, agree with others but I'd go one step further, IMO targas look best tailess. You can probably sell the 930 wing and pay for all of your suspension goodies.

[KyMitch]

I did the later carrera sway bar upgrade from the 86-89 cars. 22 front 28 rear torsion bars. Monoballs front & rear, all new bushings, ball joints, turbo tie rods. All four Bilstein sports. And a good alignment and corner balance on my 83 Targa. Drives so good I downloaded a speedometer app on my phone to double check my speed! I thought the cars speedo was off lol

[ROW911SC]

I just spent a few minutes on Elephant's website. Wow! The navigation feature is perfect! Its all gelling now. Thanks everyone.

I'm all for purity but not sure if I can go tailless!

[KyMitch]

It's a really fun diy project. However, indexing the rear torsion bars to set your ride hight can be a real PITA!

[Driven97]

Originally Posted by KyMitch

It's a really fun diy project. However, indexing the rear torsion bars to set your ride hight can be a real PITA!

The Will Ferch spring plate angle calculator and a free protractor app for your smartphone should work perfectly. Just set the adjusters on the spring plates to the middle before you slap it together so you have freedom to adjust either way, iirc the factory installed them with the adjusters all the way to one stop - full down maybe?

911 Spring Plate Angle Calculator

[KyMitch]

I wasnt aware of the calculator, cool! I used an angle finder, and yes I zero'd out the spring plate adjustments. I got it within a .25 in via indexing the t-bars, just took a while. That left the spring plate adjustments for the corner balance process. Got big props from the alignment guy.. I couldn't imagine paying someone to index those bars!

[aoncurly]

IMHO, I'd go with "restoration" Elephant rubber bushings all around, and don't forget the camber plate bushings at the top, and Turbo Tie Rods, a bump steer kit if you lower to "Euro", and Boge or Bilstein struts and shocks - I think you'll need a kit that Elephant sells to convert to Bilsteins if you have Boges. It does make sense to do it all at once to save the expense of having to set ride height and aligning the car when you change out suspension parts.

You might want to think about replating your spring plates and also blasting and powder coating some of your suspension components while you are in there. Elephant Racing did mine and my 81SC looks like a new car underneath.

[ROW911SC]

Already have Turbo tie rods; once less thing to do...

[Tremelune]

Just here to listen and regurgitate, as I'm about to embark on my own suspension saga.

Before you change your entire suspension, ask yourself what is lacking in your current setup. Stiffer doesn't mean better.

Having your shocks custom valved for your ride height, weight, spring rate, type of roads, and driving style will (from what I've read) result in better ride quality and motion control than anything you can buy off the shelf. Might even be the same money, though I've never had it done.

If Bilstein HDs are the same design as they were decades ago...It seems techmology has moved on.

[Reiver]

I've an '83 SC with a transplanted '83 euro/row. I drive it often and spiritedly. I wanted a bit less 'lean' on cornering but still a decent street ride. I've also lightened the car greatly...added lightness for speed.
Replaced the front a arm bushings with stock rubber/ new ball joint/ Boge shocks (like I said it's light) and upgraded to 22 mm Carrera sways with stock rubber bushing.
Rear sway a way adjustable plates with their harder bushings, 20 mm Carrera sway bars with new stock drop links and stoch bushings..Bilstein HD shocks (this is where the weight is obviously).
I left front/rear torsion bars stock...I tried stiffer but went back to stock.
Nicely balanced but still a street car.
2480 lbs fully wet (full gas tank etc.)
My suggestion is don't overdo the stiffness as that equates to harshness on anything but a smooth surface.

[Tremelune]

Ride height info has become a pet crusade, so I might as well keep posting this:

1987 carrera pros & cons of lowering to European Height from stock?

I believe the height you're looking for is 108+/-5mm in the front and 16mm+/-5mm in the rear, as measured from the center of the torsion bar to the center of the wheel.

[ROW911SC]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

Ride height info has become a pet crusade, so I might as well keep posting this:

1987 carrera pros & cons of lowering to European Height from stock?

I believe the height you're looking for is 108+/-5mm in the front and 16mm+/-5mm in the rear, as measured from the center of the torsion bar to the center of the wheel.

Thanks! According to the chart, yes. I just want to make sure—since the car is ROW—that the ride height is correct. Next step before I do anything: take some measurements!

Re: what I want, its more about originality and replacing 35 year old rubber. At 60K miles, not a bad idea to replace the shocks as well. Personally not looking for a "modern" ride in a vintage car, but a factory fresh, correct stock suspension.

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by LenS

Thanks! According to the chart, yes. I just want to make sure—since the car is ROW—that the ride height is correct. Next step before I do anything: take some measurements!

Re: what I want, its more about originality and replacing 35 year old rubber. At 60K miles, not a bad idea to replace the shocks as well. Personally not looking for a "modern" ride in a vintage car, but a factory fresh, correct stock suspension.

Actually a great point to start from as stock is pretty darned nice. Get your 'stock' rubber from a good source that understands the shore/hardness...there is a lot of cheap 'stock' stuff floating around (China) that is not close to stock.