Smoke test no start issue

[joe912/62]

https://youtu.be/uZKvkVjvMXo

[joe912/62]

Anyone have any thoughts where the smoke may be coming from?
Should I remove the fan to get a better look?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by joe912/62

Anyone have any thoughts where the smoke may be coming from?
Should I remove the fan to get a better look?

Joe,

Before you remove the alternator fan and housing, I would do another smoke test focusing underneath the motor. If the source of the smoke is coming from under the motor which I doubt has to be tested and verified.

Then proceed to remove the alternator fan/housing and repeat the smoke test. Make sure you take pictures of the backside of the alternator assembly before disassembly and put a maker on the air diverter’s exact mounting position with respect to the fan housing.

You can make the investigation much easier and convenient if you have an endoscope camera. I got one from Amazon for $30 before Covid and very useful. But it could be done without this fancy tool. Keep as posted.

Tony

[David Inc.]

I'd get a camera on the backside of the engine to look for leaks before starting any disassembly, just to remove the possibility.

[joe912/62]

I do have a camera and put it thru the fan but can't see much.
This morning I connected the hose thru the WUR hose going to the throttle housing. I am having difficulty stopping the smoke from leaking from the AFS to do the test correctly. I've stuffed rags in there but still smoke leaking from there. But from what I see is most of the smoke is coming from the fan area and other areas seem to be good. I put the Pope hat back on to do the test.

[David Inc.]

Try some plastic wrap on the AFS side of the intake boot. You can cover it and use the hose clamp to keep it relatively sealed so long as you're using low pressure.

[joe912/62]

So do I remove the Pope hat and put the plastic wrap on top of the plate?

[mike sampsel]

Originally Posted by joe912/62

So do I remove the Pope hat and put the plastic wrap on top of the plate?

Yup you remove the "pope boot" and cover the intake manifold on the 1,2,3 side of the the boot. I use a glove and a clamp to keep it from leaking smoke. The side with the plate (on the 4,5,6 side) is left alone.

[David Inc.]

Yeah you seal the boot, not the metering plate. That traps the smoke on the metered side of the intake.

[joe912/62]

Okay will take the boot off and try that. Getting pretty good at taking that thing off now.
Yesterday I had a helper start the car while I sprayed starter fluid to the sensor plate area and the car ran for a second longer.

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by joe912/62

Okay will take the boot off and try that. Getting pretty good at taking that thing off now.
Yesterday I had a helper start the car while I sprayed starter fluid to the sensor plate area and the car ran for a second longer.

Progress!!!!!!!!!

[joe912/62]

Doesn't seem like much progress to me but moving forward.
Just re-did the test with the glove on the throttle area with hose attached to the distributor vacuum line, no smoke from AFS side now. Still have a lot of smoke coming from the fan area but nothing from the injectors or any hoses from behind. If I understand this system the only part that is connected to the engine is at the runners, which I have no leaks because I replaced all the gaskets on the top side.
As I was raising my car on the lift I noticed that the bolts of the heat exchanger below #6 cylinder was completely loose and noticed smoke coming from that general area.
Do you think that smoke could rise and move upward between the cover and the engine?

[David Inc.]

Turn the engine 180 degrees and try again. If it's in the sweet spot in valve overlap smoke could get through, so turn it over and it should seal up.

[joe912/62]

Okay I will try that but would that be considered a vacuum leak and contribute to the car not starting? If there's no smoke anywhere else what does that tell me?

[mysocal911]

Originally Posted by joe912/62

Doesn't seem like much progress to me but moving forward.
Just re-did the test with the glove on the throttle area with hose attached to the distributor vacuum line, no smoke from AFS side now. Still have a lot of smoke coming from the fan area but nothing from the injectors or any hoses from behind. If I understand this system the only part that is connected to the engine is at the runners, which I have no leaks because I replaced all the gaskets on the top side.
As I was raising my car on the lift I noticed that the bolts of the heat exchanger below #6 cylinder was completely loose and noticed smoke coming from that general area.
Do you think that smoke could rise and move upward between the cover and the engine?

You still only have over 100 more posts to go thru like here;

Distributor green wire

Maybe this thread will be the lucky one, right?

[boyt911sc]

Joe,

How much air pressure do you use for this test? You need only 2~3 psi. of continuous supply of air pressure with smoke to effectively locate and identify the air leaks in your CIS.

Remove the “Pope boot”, plug the two (2) vacuum hoses and the throttle body and disconnect the brake vacuum hose too. Place a latex glove over the throttle body and get it partially inflated. Too much air pressure will pop off the balloon. You want to keep the latex glove or balloon in place. Additional rubber bands do the trick.

You could introduce the pressurized air with smoke into the system at several spots:

• Pop-Off valve if you have one installed.
• To the brake booster vacuum tube at the side of the air box (driverside).
• To the vent tube hose of the WUR.
• To any of the intake runners’ fuel injector mounting hole/s.
• Etc.

Spend working on your problem/s. Investigate and come back with more helpful information. Since you are doing all the work, we are only observers and rely on your feedback. For example: Where is the leak source under the Fiberglas shroud coming from? Don’t jump into your computer and ask the viewers? People will all give you wild guesses.

Do a pro-active investigation. Look further and determine where the smoke is leaking. I tried to avoid lately giving you advice because you had been offended. That was not my intentions. How many PM’s you sent and came back with replies? If my intention was not to assist you, I would simply not replied to them or ignore your messages.

Let’s get back to work. Find out where this smoke is coming from? Do not use too much air pressure. The problem is right in front of your nose but you don’t realize it. You believe in this phrase?

Tony

[PeteKz]

Yes, Joe, you should post a note on your "Green Distributor Wire" thread to redirect over here, since this seems to be where we are getting to the root of your problem. It's clearly not an ignition problem now.

David: If you crank the engine 180 degrees, then a different cylinder will be at valve overlap and smoke will still go through into the exhaust. There are limited sweet spots where all 6 cylinders do not have valve overlap, but Joe would have to play around with that to find them. At any rate, exhaust side leaks are not what is causing the engine to not run.

Joe, as you surmised, a leak on the exhaust side will not cause the engine to not run. Your problem is on the intake side.

[David Inc.]

Oh duh, of course. Yeah it just needs a little bump, not 180 out. Right thing to do is make sure the header is bolted and cap the tailpipe.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by joe912/62

Doesn't seem like much progress to me but moving forward.
Just re-did the test with the glove on the throttle area with hose attached to the distributor vacuum line, no smoke from AFS side now. Still have a lot of smoke coming from the fan area but nothing from the injectors or any hoses from behind. If I understand this system the only part that is connected to the engine is at the runners, which I have no leaks because I replaced all the gaskets on the top side.
As I was raising my car on the lift I noticed that the bolts of the heat exchanger below #6 cylinder was completely loose and noticed smoke coming from that general area.
Do you think that smoke could rise and move upward between the cover and the engine?

Yes, it simply rises in the opposite direction from what cooling fan blows. That explains the smoke emanating between the vanes of the fan in your video.

Do you have a new video after fixing #6 ?

[joe912/62]

Found the area where the smoke was coming from thru the fan.
I removed the passenger side heater block off plate instead of the fan.


When I did the test yesterday I noticed that the glove on the throttle body was really not inflating, must be because of the leak.
Since I couldn't see any leaks above and only coming from the front of the fan and now with the heater plate open I can see it was basically coming from the drivers side.
I proceed to double check my bolts on the runners on that side and #2 runner was completely loose.
It's the runner were the WUR is installed. I guess I didn't tighten them and figured I would after getting the WUR back from Tony once he rebuilt it.
Did the test again and the glove totally inflated and no smoke from the fan area.
The only area that is leaking is the Pop off valve toilet seat.
I will put everything back on and see if it starts.