Help! Calif Smog challenge on a '84 911

[sroakley]

I bought a 1984 911 Carrera in Pennsylvania, last registered in Oklahoma, and drove it from PA to CA. I stopped in St. Louis for some work, and the mechanic said that this model had no O2 sensor.

Is this possible? Does Porsche make a non-O2 sensor 1984 Carrera? What are the challenges facing me for California smog inspections?

There is a O2 sensor on the CAT, but it is not connected. The mechanic said that my computer does not read O2 sensor, nor is there wiring for the O2 sensor to the computer brain.

Any suggestions?

Thanks, Steve

P.S. It is a Euro-model

[yelcab1]

I do not know whether your car requires a O2 sensor.

This is what I do know:

To bring that car into the state of California, you will be REQUIRED to turn it into a California-like model for the year 1984. No expenses will be spared, you will receive no exemptions.

This means: you will be required to install a catalytic convertor if it does not have one. If you do not have the appropriate DME, you will be required to install that so that it will accept an O2 sensor. Then, you will be required to pass the sniff test to that of a California 84-911 porsche has to pass.

If you do not pass both the visual inspection and a sniff test, you will not be issued a title in CA, or a registration in CA.

You will be granted several 30 days temporary tags to drive around and get the repairs made. However, you will be required to pay the entire annual car registration fee. You MAY be required to pay the sales tax of 8.5%, depending on how you process your paperwork.

Should have checked this out before you buy a non-CA-Smog car, and a Grey market at that. Sorry to say, it is bend-over time. I have friend who is doing this right now to a 84 Ferrari 308Qv (Euro version), and he has spent so much money and NOT get it passed that he is thinking of selling it out of state, and NOT recoup all of his money ofcourse.

[sroakley]

Thanks for the info. I was afraid of that.

Is the DME the "computer" or "brain"?

[pjv911]

Yes its the computer

[osidak]

I think I would tell the "Great" state of California to go jump in the Pacific. That is ridiculous that a car that is 18 years old and was brought into this country legally can be denied unless the owner spends several thousand dollars in addition to all the damn taxes they impose.

[9XI]

If you make it look stock, and it passes a sniff test, a Porsche-friendly mechanic may give you the nod.

People here will swear up and down that it doesn't happen anymore, but it does.

[studeb]

If your car came into the US "legally", it should have EPA papers and a sticker. As long as it is 49 state legal, CA is not a problem. i did not have to "retrofit" anything on an 89 that i brought into CA. The Smog Referees accept 49 state cars. The tester you use may not. That is your problem. The testers like to see bar code stickers, when there isn't one there, or it looks different they balk, then you go to the referee, he gives you the sticker after looking at and testing your car. Mine didn't check for cats.

[Milu]

No 02 sensor on Euro model. Probablya gray market import.

[Wayne 962]

Another good reason to stay away from European import cars - they can be a lot of trouble...

-Wayne

[john70t]

You probably are aware of this but: the required emmisions components should be listed on the underhood label (i.e.O2=oxy sensor TWC=three way cat AIR=air injection EVAP=evaporative canister). It should also tell you if it was made in Cali(50 state label) which will probably have high altitude compensators, but my understanding is that all the states are starting to get the same equipment. No sticker might mean grey market or accident.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally posted by osidak
I think I would tell the "Great" state of California to go jump in the Pacific. That is ridiculous that a car that is 18 years old and was brought into this country legally can be denied unless the owner spends several thousand dollars in addition to all the damn taxes they impose.

Should I start buying ocean front property in Nevada now? If you think we're paying big taxes now just wait

[yelcab1]

Originally posted by dmoolenaar
Should I start buying ocean front property in Nevada now? If you think we're paying big taxes now just wait

you can always wait another 12 years and your 30 years old car will be exempted from all Smog testing.

Seriously, be careful where you take your car for the very first test. If you are entered into the system as a gross polluter, and other offenders, you will be REQUIRED to see a state referree. They have access to everything on line and know exactly what to look for and where. The guy I dealt with for my car was nice and very knowledgeable.

You might be friends with some local mechanic and have him put your car on a "training mode" test that only smells the CO/HC/CO2, and does not send the report to the DMV. That way you can tell if you fail, how bad you have to fix it, and what to do next.

Write me an email and i'll tell you how the sales tax thing works.

[targa80]

I moved from New York to Southern California in 1994 and brought my 1980 SC with me. I found the sticker on the underhood that stated it was California legal. The DMV saw that and blessed the car off after passing the smog check. At that time there was a $300 fee to bring a non compliant car into California plus cost to meet the requirements. I did not have to pay those fees since the car was legal. I believe that they have removed the $300 fee due to legal issues. I understand that in 1980 cars which were built for the US market were all made to meet the California standard.

[yelcab1]

I believe that there is a difference in the way DMV treats people who move into the state, and CA resident who buys cars from out of state. You need to call the DMV or visit their web site.

And true, there is no longer a $300 fee for Smog Impact. That was ruled unconstitutional as it impedes the flow of commerce across state lines by making it more expensive for people to move into the state of california.

[tmctguer]

if this is a gray market car -- not a 49 state car, but a car manufactured for registration in european markets, not the USA -- you will have to get CARB certification (California Air Resources Board) before DMV will allow it to be registered. the DMV can give you information about their locations (i think). i know of a repair facility that brings european models up to USA spec. i am sure the cost would be exhorbitant. i hope this is not the case. gray market cars can be a major PITA and usually sell for less that USA counterparts for this very reason.

hopefully, the car has more than 7,500 miles on it. if it does not, and it is a 49 state car, it is illegal to register it in the state unless you fit into 1 of 3 exemptions. i won't go into them, but god help you if this is the case. (i found that i miraculously met one, but i'm going to hell for it when i die.)

if it is a 49 state car, the DMV inspectors will catch it..............they caught mine when i attempted to register an '89 speedster that was 49 state. this designation is written on a silver sticker attached to the engine cover. there is specific language that says something to the effect that "this car is legal for sale in the state of california". without this sticker, and being a CA resident, the DMV will tell you that you fall under non-resident vehicle registration rules.

as a resident purchasing a non-resident vehicle, you fall under different guidelines than someone moving to CA with the car. a resident vehicle must be smogged by the seller when the transaction takes place. since you bypassed this step buying the car out of state, and it is a 49 state vehicle, YOU now bear the burden of smogging the vehicle. i believe that folks moving to CA will bear the smog burden the next time their vehicle is up for license renewal.

if you attempt to register it and the DMV catches the 49 state sticker, they will enter the VIN into the DMV registration system and the car gets on their ***** list. at least if you research first, register later, you may have a chance to drive on the out-of-state plates for awhile. hopefully, they haven't expired !

i strongly recommend visiting your local DMV office to pickup their brochures on this topic ("Register a Nonresident Vehicle") and checking out the DMV website (www.dmv.ca.gov) to research the topic BEFORE attempting to register it.

good luck and let us know how it turns out. if you wish to email me to discuss this topic in greater detail, i'm at "tmctguer@cox.net".

[sroakley]

I've done some checking: My car is a gray-market 911 imported Euro model. I don't know when it was brought in, but probably while fairly new. It has a sticker on the door frame stating it meets all federal requirements for the year of manufacture. It also has a catalytic converter with an O2 sensor installed, but going nowhere. There's also a strange box mounted on top of the DME computer that appears to have been hooked up to the O2, but has been disconnected some time ago. It may have been some sort of fuel controller that interfaced with the DME computer and the O2 sensor. The fuel tank has the unleaded restricted opening, and there are "non-leaded fuel only" stickers on the guage and flip lid. There appears to be a charcoal tank mounted near the fuel filter. I've been thinking that I'll take for a "pre-test" smog check, just to see how it stands. I'm planning on getting the valves adjusted, and spark plugs changed first though.

I also own a 1967 912 that I bought before the change in Calif smog laws a few years back. During this exciting episode I found out that once you start the registration process, in CA, they take your title and you're stuck. You have to go through the entire process. My 912 had K&N air filters and Webbers installed, and I had to go buy old Solex carbs and air cleaners. It was an exhausting experience, but I made it only to find 6 months later that it was moot. I wish they told me the changes were coming and I would have just stored the baby. I love the 912 as it is very clean and has around 60K miles, but no A/C, and living in Bakersfield as I do means I can drive it during the spring and fall. Winter is too foggy and summer cooks! With the 1984 I can drive it year around.

I'm very cautious and won't approach DMV until I know exactly what's going to happen. I'm also checking out registering it in another state, in my name, so I can bring it in as my car. My son lives in a state where smog is no problem.

The 1984 911 I bought is super clean and has 53,000 miles including the 2600 I put on it driving from PA. Man, that was a blast! The interior is super, the original paint is like new, it has BBS wheels and new tires. Everything works and the A/C is cold. It is a great car. I just wish I knew what "Euro" model meant, but I probably did, really. I just didn't think about it. I should know better, I admit it, but once I saw the car I just couldn't help myself. She's that nice, and I'm a sucker for a pretty german. And once I drove it I was totally seduced. A fool once said that these cars are like a beautiful woman: fickle, demanding and expensive, but oh so worth it.

It looks like the miles are fairly accurate, but who knows how many were on it before they changed the speedo from km/hr to m/hr. The only thing wrong, that I can see besides the smog issue, it that the front end is 1/2 inch higher in front than the rear, and this makes the headlights too high besides probably affecting handling.

Should I bring the front down, or raise the rear-end? Which is the best approach?

What about working on these cars? I've done a lot of work on cars over the years, especially on VWs, but this engine looks tough. I'm intimidated to attempt to adjust these valves, but I'd like to give it a go. I do the valves on my 912 and it's as easy as a VW.

Thanks for all your suggestions and ideas! Please share any other comments, anything at all!

Steve

[tmctguer]

you might consider "giving/selling" the car to a relative who resides in another state, then having that relative "establish" residency in CA (for example, at your house -- wink, wink).

after establishing residency, have them register the non-resident vehicle as a new resident to CA. after getting registration completed, the car can now be sold in CA. they can "give/sell" the car to you (but will have to get it smogged -- maybe a P-car dealer would pass the emissions, but not ding you on the missing O-2 wiring).

the only thing that scares me is the gray market CARB sticker and EPA paperwork. DMV may have a problem even with a new resident who tries to register a gray market car.

you can print out the vehicle code and look for all the conditions that apply to smog situations. i know i had to when i had my registration fiasco.

[jhugh]

How's this for stupid? I just took my '84 to get a smog check. The guy said he wouldn't even test it because it would fail visual.. it has a K&N cone air filter on it, so the engine has to be designated as "modified," which automatically fails it. No big for me... I have the stock air cleaner box. But talk about stupid. Jeesh.

[Thomas Owen]

Steve, the ride height you mention could be correct. The 'standard' euro ride height is 25" to the rear lip, and 25.5" to the front lip, both measured from the floor straight up. That may be the .5" you are talking about, in which case that should be the difference.
Good luck,

[Two Oh]

Steve, You can always 'buy' a smog certificate.
$300.00-$450.00 depending which crook you deal with.......