speakers questions for audio pelicanites

[Baby]

I want to upgrade my 20-yo components. I've read lots of threads here and elsewhere about different systems (and dynamat!) as I try to assemble this one, and I am down to some specific considerations.

I'd like to keep the Blau 4 x 40 amp I have and run door speakers only and leave two channels unused (for now, maybe add rears later). I'd like to get a powered sub for under the seat to help fill out the low end. I'm not looking for a perfect system but one that is somewhat inspiring when I'm cruising at the speed limit or stuck in traffic.

Granted that there is plenty of engine/drivetrain noise in the SC coupe I drive and the cabin is small and I've likely lost some hearing from years of riding motorbikes without earplugs:

1. Will door speakers in the $250 range offer noticeably better sound in than something in the $100 range?

2. Currently I'm running some clapped out a/d/s 5.25 components in the doors. Is it worth it to go up to 6.5s, considering I'll add the underseat sub?

3. Anyone had depth issues with something like the Focal PS 130v or other Focals?

[autojack]

I'm not a serious audiophile, but I recently replaced the blown original rear speakers in my car and did some research. One thing I read here on the forum is that the door speakers are really too low to be very effective. They are basically firing into your knees. The rear speakers do a much better job of getting sound directly to your ears.

Indeed I found this to be the case, once I installed the new rear speakers. I ended up biasing my levels toward the rear, and the sound was greatly improved. So if it were my car, I definitely wouldn't ditch the rear speakers, regardless of what you decide to put in the doors.

[autojack]

Oh, and again I'm not an audiophile but you'd never convince me that you could tell the difference between $100 and $250 door speakers in a 911. Spend that money on living room speakers instead

[Baby]

Originally Posted by autojack

I'm not a serious audiophile, but I recently replaced the blown original rear speakers in my car and did some research. One thing I read here on the forum is that the door speakers are really too low to be very effective. They are basically firing into your knees. The rear speakers do a much better job of getting sound directly to your ears.

Indeed I found this to be the case, once I installed the new rear speakers. I ended up biasing my levels toward the rear, and the sound was greatly improved. So if it were my car, I definitely wouldn't ditch the rear speakers, regardless of what you decide to put in the doors.

Thanks. Funny, I've heard the opposite---that the rear speakers don't do much but move the image toward the back where the noise is. Right now I have rear deck speakers, and I've messed with isolating them as well as the fronts. The fronts: woofers fire under my legs, and the tweeters are about nipple-high. With the fronts only it sounds like i'm in the middle of it. Rears only sound like it's behind me.

[rwest]

The "goal" of a stereo system is to replicate a live performance, so putting an emphasis on the rear speakers would be similar to going to a concert and turning your chair around!

Extra money on speakers should be an improvement.

Check your amp out and see if you can bridge two of the channels, then you could run two channels to the front speakers and the by bridging channels 3 and 4, you could run a regular sub with a decent amount of power.

[jac1976]

Clapped out A/D/S components? I'll take them. You will have to spend significantly more money than you mention to match the quality of those components. And they are likely period correct or more so than new. Not suggesting that is paramount, but something to consider.

[911h20]

My ADS after many years still sound excellent. Perhaps you head unit or power source needs to be refreshed.

[82 SC]

Originally Posted by 911h20

My ADS after many years still sound excellent. Perhaps you head unit or power source needs to be refreshed.

I have ADS's too, one seems to be buzzing just a little. I will get them reconed when I am ready. They sound great!

[Tippy]

I'm a HUGE fan of component speakers. The crossovers and separated tweeters make a big difference in imaging and soundstage.

Yes, paying $250 for speakers will sound better and clearer than $100 sets IMO.

I'm a big fan of Infinity Kappa speakers. Think they sound way better than any Focal's everyone touts, but sound is subjective....

[Gogar]

My $.02

I used to LOVE car audio and when I bought my '72 I wanted to upgrade the stereo a little bit,

I bought some component Bostons and cut a little puck out of the the upper door pad towards the front, recovered it so the tweeter was up at chest level.

To be honest it sounds much better but if I could do it all over I would just put a nice set of 6" or 6.5" somethings in the stock spot and call it a day. It's a 911.


I do have the Kenwood under seat subwoofer in my SC and it is fun, for the price, and you don't have to mess up the car any to put it there.

[matthewb0051]

I used to be into this stuff when I was younger. Every car I got had to get a new stereo. Not so much now. Now when I'm in trial or have a presentation I work out closing arguments in the car...it looks like I'm talking to myself I'm sure.

Anyway, as others have stated the rears are there to fill out the sound not be your focal point. You should fade the sound with a bias toward the front. Good tweeters angled to your head and midrange in the doors will greatly improve your sound. However, to totally round out the sound you will need a sub and it really does not matter where it it located to an extent (i wouldn't put it in the frunk) Bass is not directional, or so my former research indicated.

Your mid range size is up to you. I wouldn't cut my openings simply to add one inch in diameter. Spend on a better speaker over size any day.

Dang, does anyone else miss putting a pair of Jensen 6x9's in the rear parcel shelf and calling it a day?

[Baby]

Thanks, all. As usual, the board has driven me to investigate more and to be more specific. By clapped out, I mean the driver-side tweeter is crackling intermittently (otherwise no sound coming out). Otherwise they seem to be good. I don't think they need to be reconed or refoamed, but I hadn't even considered the possibility of repairing them, assuming it's not just a bad connection. I think I'll have a closer look at that tweeter and try to fix that issue before dumping money on new stuff.

The speakers are 320i. They put out a lot of lowish-end for such tiny things. The Alpines on the rear deck are a lot more tinny, but they are clear and they pop and fizz only when I mess with the volume control.

The amp is a Blaupunkt PSA 168. I can't find any documentation on it to tell if it's bridgeable. No markings on it indicate that it is. I had thought that if it were I might run a real sub off of it, but I think that it may not be.

The deck is a Kenwood KRC-878. Except for scratchy FM reception, it seems to work great, but I want to replace it with something that can play music from a phone and do hands-free. I should say part of me wants to go that route. I still like the idea of not being expected to answer the phone while driving, and I prefer the appearance of the Kenwood to the new head units. I guess the jury is still out on that one.

The good news is the CD changer in the frunk that hadn't worked for years works great now. I found a manual online and looked at the troubleshooting section, noticed that the unit was tilted forward, loosened the mounting screws, stuffed a spacer under the front, tightened it down, and it works.

I do need to figure out what to do about a sub. I like the idea of something under the seat, and I'm not looking to shake the windows, which is why the little powered subs seem like they'd work for me. But I'm not opposed to rigging a real sub and even powering it with another amp if the one I have isn't bridgeable.

Thanks for your help, and by all means keep the comments coming!

[Cajundaddy]

Well, with full understanding that an SC is a long way from an ideal listening environment, improvements can always be made. I don't think judging sound quality by price tag or speaker size are great yardsticks though. There are some pretty decent $100 speakers and some pretty awful $250 ones. Speakers are also very subjective. A Rapper, Jazz musician, and Rolling Stones fan will want very different things from their sound system and there is a speaker out there for each. My personal preference leans more towards smooth natural reproduction than vivid boom and sizzle. I have been known to strap a small pair of studio monitors in the back seat and forgo car speakers altogether. Others will have different wants.

With limited power SPL becomes more important. Higher is better. For door speakers, a good set of separates will deliver 50hz-20khz +/- 3db for smooth response. Crutchfeld is actually a pretty good resource to narrow your choices for car audio. I suggest you think about the type of music you prefer, and the speakers you have heard that you liked. Then go to Crutchfield and see if you can find something that will fit.

These are designed to work with a stock radio, have high sensitivity (SPL) so they get loud, and reasonably smooth top end. They roll off at 70hz so not a big bottom but still probably good for most music.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_109CL5000C/JBL-Club-5000C.html?tp=97

These also have high sensitivity, more bottom, not as smooth highs:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TA1306C/Pioneer-TS-A1306C.html?tp=97

[Baby]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Well, with full understanding that an SC is a long way from an ideal listening environment, improvements can always be made. I don't think judging sound quality by price tag or speaker size are great yardsticks though. There are some pretty decent $100 speakers and some pretty awful $250 ones. Speakers are also very subjective. A Rapper, Jazz musician, and Rolling Stones fan will want very different things from their sound system and there is a speaker out there for each. My personal preference leans more towards smooth natural reproduction than vivid boom and sizzle. Others will have different wants.

With limited power SPL becomes more important. Higher is better. For door speakers, a good set of separates will deliver 50hz-20khz +/- 3db for smooth response. Crutchfeld is actually a pretty good resource to narrow your choices for car audio. I suggest you think about the type of music you prefer, and the speakers you have heard that you liked. Then go to Crutchfield and see if you can find something that will fit.

Understood. I have spent a lot of time at Crutchfield reading, comparing specs and chatting with their staff (for what it's worth). My speaker questions here were specifically about the considerations of one size over another and price points. Both are important considerations as I research, but by no means are they the main criteria. My tastes are wide-ranging. I understand that when both cello and banjo are on the menu, compromise is as well. Thanks for the suggestions AND your recommendations!

[Cajundaddy]

Cello AND banjo? Compromises indeed. You might be a candidate for a nice pair of studio monitors in your back seat.

[rwest]

A quick look up on google seems to show your amp as one that takes speaker level inputs rather than the rca pre amp levels, if that is correct and you are really looking to get good sound, I would get a head unit with line level outputs and a decent bridgeable 4 channel amp and run 2 channels to the front speakers and bridge the last two to a sub.

Another option is a 2 channel amp and a powered sub.

Amplifying the speaker level output of a head unit will also amplify the typically high level distortion that a head units amp puts out.

There are many reasonable priced heads and amps that will make a huge difference in sound quality over a built in amp.

A/D/S speakers are very good, I would check the wiring and also the signal coming out of your amp before deciding they are bad. From your description of the rear speakers breaking up when you adjust volume, I would be inclined to think the head or amp is bad.

[RSBob]

If you are old fashioned and still listen to FM a big upgrade is changing to a HD receiver. The sound quality is so night and day you may not need to change speakers unless you are staying period. I had my last period about 10 years ago so don't worry about it.

[Tremelune]

1) $100 speakers are likely to hold their own plenty against $250 speakers in a running car until you start pushing maybe 50w RMS. That said, there is a greater jump between component speakers over coaxial speakers, and price will reflect that. Components have better crossovers and it shows...and they cost more. You can go crazy here very easily.

2) Going from 5.25" to 6.5" won't get you much if you have a dedicated sub. Not worth monkeying with adapters and rings and covers.

The speakers in the rear shelf serve only to confuse the sound stage in a car this size. They sound "better" or "louder" solely due to the fact that they can be larger. They are a net negative in a system with plenty of power from external amps and a subwoofer.

a/d/s speakers are almost surely top quality, but age can and does wear speakers out. I probably wouldn't change them unless they had holes or were making obvious distortion noises at reasonable volumes. Replacing just the tweeter and keeping the rest (particularly the crossovers) might be your best bang-for-buck.

The head unit you want is probably a Pioneer DEH-80PRS. It is top quality, does USB and bluetooth audio, and (most importantly) goes completely black after a few seconds of inactivity so it isn't hideous to look at, particularly at night.

You will likely be fine with a good under-seat sub. If nothing else, it's a cheap and elegant experiment compared to building a custom enclosure behind the seats.

[Slanski62]

I recently spent a pretty big chunk of change on new speakers, a sub, amp and head unit for my Carrera. Now I regret it. Why? As others mentioned, the listening environment in our cars is just not conducive to good sound. Think about it. If you have to raise your voice for a phone call, can you ever expect to hear soft piano passages or distinguish between a baritone and a French horn?

[Tremelune]

Random thoughts: If you make sure your wiring is beefy, changing out the amp and under-seat sub is trivially easy. Maybe run with what you've got there, and iterate on that setup if you notice deficiencies. Speakers involve removing interior bits, so it's probably desirable to only do that once...

Run RCA cables to the amp(s) even if you don't use them yet. Over-spec power and ground wire. You only ever want to run infrastructure once.