Hit & Run / Insurance Woes / Betterment Concerns?

[mgar88]

Hi all--looking for some advice from those experienced with insurance claims.

A couple of weeks ago, my '86 911 was hit in the parking lot of a restaurant (pictures below). No note was left on the car. Police were called and arrived on scene. Luckily, police discovered that the parking lot had a security camera that captured the vehicle hitting my car. Police dutifully tracked the other driver down. Other driver saw the video and conceded liability. Driver is insured with Mercury Insurance.

Today I took the car to a body shop in LA (Collision Consultants--it came heavily recommended--thoughts?). Shop told me that they can't just slap a freshly painted bumper and fender next to a hood and other body panels that are 30+ years old. Shop says that in order to do this job properly, they will have to repaint (or touch-up/blend/otherwise massage) a number of nearby panels. Needless to say, this parking lot fender bender is adding up to a serious repair bill.

1. Shop says that the insurance company is likely to push back on their estimate. Do any of you have experience in this respect? The idea is that my vehicle would look a bit Frankenstein if they were to put a fresh fender alongside a hood with a 30 year "patina."

2. Assuming that insurance company approves the shop's estimate to repair the adjacent body panels, the shop warns that the insurance company will likely slap me for a "betterment" fee. For those unfamiliar with the concept, when your vehicle is inadvertently improved by necessary insurance repairs, insurance companies charge you for the amount your vehicle has been improved.

In this case, because my car requires blending on multiple panels, the insurance company will argue that my car will be worth more after the repairs than before the accident. I do not agree and want to avoid having to pay a dime for the pleasure of having my car pulled apart and repainted. Do any of you have experience on this front? My thoughts are that my car will not be worth more after its repaint considering it will lose its original paint, thus affecting value. Looking for advice.

For those of you who are interested, a buddy of mine is a youtuber documented the ordeal. Video can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgC7KQj2-ec&spfreload=5

[-Levi-]

I think you will have a fight ahead of you. Just remember it is their responsibility to make the car as good as it was before the accident, and before the accident all panels matched perfect- they need to make it that way- their clients fault shoudent be your problem

[rickinlodi]

Who insures your Porsche?


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[rickinlodi]

Hopefully Hagerty, or another classic car insurance company. Your best bet would be to go through them for the repairs, and have them subrogate against crappy ass Mercury.


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[timmy2]

Tell them (their insurer) that any "betterment" fees will easily be offset by the diminished value claim they will be paying you. Should shut them right up!

[rickinlodi]

Diminished value would have to be settled in small claims court. Insurance companies won't provide diminished value. May even have to sue the insured. Arbitration won't help either. Go through your own insurance company!


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[shaunmbenson]

Don't fear a thing til your Ins Co responds.

So far it is all shop supposition

[jrsully]

I'm in the business. Your insurance carrier (assuming an agreed value, collector collector) will be a lot more liberal in a satisfactory settlement amount. If you want the car repaired to your absolute satisfaction, use your carrier immediately. As indicated above, they will subrogate against Mercury. As far as diminished value, most carriers will not recognize, but some do. I had a customer's late model Ferrari get a hit by a Chubb (very high end carrier) customer and they paid for repair, rental of the same model Ferrari during repair AND diminished value. While these type of carriers are rare, they are out there. Mercury is more of a "vanilla" carrier and I would not hold my breath on a diminished value pay out, will more than likely take a court case by you personally. Your carrier may or may not get involved on it on your behalf. Their involvement would normally be to pursue what they paid out and that's it. Good luck with it and let me know if you have any further questions

[911 SLANT]

Jrsully would you be so kind to tell us who these good carriers are. It would save me alot of time. I'm in the market for insurance. Thanks

[john walker's workshop]

I guess nobody has the skill these days to actually repair that fender. A couple of hours on that ding and it's ready for primer. Didn't even distort the headlight area.

[scottrx7tt]

Looks to me that an experienced paintless dent repair guy could take care of this, no problem. The black smudges will buff out. My wife backed into our Mercedes E55 hood with the spare tire of our Jeep Wrangler, and it was much worse than that. $500 later, it was good as new.

[faverymi]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

I guess nobody has the skill these days to actually repair that fender. A couple of hours on that ding and it's ready for primer. Didn't even distort the headlight area.

My thoughts....
Talking about keeping a car original.
Thank god for my 1Polish 2 Boricua guys to go around here. No lack of skills.
With modern cars and insurance work it's just easier to slap a new panel.

[Quicksilver]

A bit of a drive but the best paintless dent guy in OC is Beach Cities Paintless Dent Removal at 7511 Warner Ave. He does "call out" work but he has the lighting to see much more detail at is shop. To get an idea of his skill: He does a fair amount of work improving other people PDR work. (He once told me it was easier to work on panels that are color sanded because otherwise he ends up flattening out the normal orange peel!)

Jeff will tell you exactly what he he can do for you. If he can't do it he will say exactly that. He will also look at it with a WAY more critical eye then you ever will.

--------
Back to the insurance bit. Mercury as the "opposing" insurance is known to be pretty vicious especially at the arbitration table. My agent told me this years ago and now I have something pending in small claims to prove it.
Go through your insurance. Don't even talk to his as everything they do is for their benefit.

[timchar]

I would be shocked if a paintless dent guy could handle this. The size and crease are a killer. I've used them very successfully on very small items. I would source a fender (no bondo). They may have to blend the hood and maybe even door to match perfectly. Good luck, Tim

[Trakrat]

FYI.... any body shop that tells you they have to paint perfectly good body panels "to match" are lying!!

Walk away and find another place.... It is one of the most widely used excuses for body shops to suck more money. This is ESPECIALLY true when they knew that insurance is involved.

Another thing body shops will do is copy down your VIN# any time you come in to get an estimate.... why?? Because they know that customers used to go to the same body shop at a different location and get a better, more honest estimate.


I hate shady shops like this!!!!

[timchar]

^^, So you could have a semi- faded hood and door and a freshly painted fender? Or can they spray faded paint now? Interesting. Tim

[jrsully]

Answering 911 Slant's questions on quality carriers. Honestly, most of the Collector car carriers are very good claims wise, they have to be. Small market for this stuff (although it is growing). It usually comes down to particulars, some have age restrictions on drivers (anywhere from 23-25 usually). There are carriers now that will allow driving to work on occasion, some carries will cover project cars, some will not until completed to a certain degree. I would not worry so much about any one carrier being bad on claims, as I would on the parameters for coverage that you need (ie: you want to let your "reasonably" young son drive your car(s), or you want to drive it to work on a nice day. The other recent development is covering late model exotics. American Modern Home was an innovator here and now other carriers/brokers (Hagerty/Chubb etc are jumping in) If you have late model exotics (along with old stuff) this is a very good option because of the agreed value you can get on the late models vs. a possible ACV (actual cash value) at time of loss on traditional car insurance. This is a good way to hedge against late model market fluctuations. As far as carriers quality, American Modern Home (AMOD), Hagerty/Essentia, Chubb, AIG, have all performed well, Hagerty and Chubb can be pricey. A lot of the mainstream markets are now getting into the market with similar products (Allstate, State Farm) so check there. Hope this answered a few questions

[mgar88]

Thanks all for the great information. I left the car with the body shop. My plan for now is to wait to see what the Mercury adjuster says. Based off their reaction to the estimate (and my ability to negotiate with them directly), I'll decide whether to continue to work directly with them or instead work only through my insurance company (State Farm--body shop is part of their approved network) and have them chase Mercury.

[SCrescue]

mgar88, sorry to see you have to go through this, but glad to hear LE was able to track down the cowardly perp who did this. I'd just like to add my .02 cents to the conversation regarding the prospect of utilizing paintless dent repair. My car had a nasty crease (and cracked paint) on the crown of the RH fender. I took the car to a PDR pro in Daytona (Dent Ranger) and he was able to take out the crease and restore the contour so well that no filler was required. He worked on it for several hours and used his most aggressive tools to work out the dent along with the crease. He said the metal Porsche used to fabricate the fender is the strongest he's ever seen. He also said the tools he used can easily break though most body panels, but he could not break the 911's metal. Along with the fender repair, he went over the entire body removing approximately a dozen other dings and the total cost was $300. I'd think your fender could also be successfully repaired by a qualified specialist as others have stated without the need to replace the panel or repaint. Best of luck to you.

[LUFTKUL]

I'm impressed LE showed and took the time to review the surveillance video on what I assume is private property parking lot.