State Farm covers DE

[s_wilwerding]

I was over on the Boxster board the other day and someone mentioned that State Farm covers DE in their regular insurance policy. I have State Farm and wanted to verify this. Does anyone on this board know for sure?

[RickM]

I guess it depends what you mean by DE. State Farm may have a different idea of what it is....they will discount your policy if you take Defensive Driving courses. Could they be thinking that this what is being asked about?

[Wil Ferch]

Wrong!....
Be very careful about blanket statements like this. I have State Farm, and I presented a package of information to my agent which describes what DE is all about ( PCA info). He at first thought all would be covered...not a timed event, not racing..blah blah. I then said, fine...but run it past the home office underwriters..the group that would actually pony up money if there was an "event". Result? Rejected. Why? Because you are "on" a race track...not a public road...whether you're "racing" or not. This answer is therefore very dependent on the individual underwriter that is involved...and the particular state ( even city) that you're in. Sorry...I don't believe there is a blanket answer here. In some cases, you simply "try" to claim and may luck out...but good luck trying to figure this out ahead of time !! At the very least, get whatever answer you get "in writing"...from the home office...not from your agent.
--Wil Ferch

[thrown_hammer]

My agent at Hagerty said they were thinking about covering autocrosses and DE's because it is not a "race" and you are becoming a better driver. No word on it yet though...

[79targa]

I have had direct conversations with my agent at Farmers Insurance Group on this exact topic. I am covered for any damage that may happen at an autocross. My agent actually advertised in our SCCA newsletter while I was Solo II chairman. We are also covered for DE type track events. He also said if a DE (non-timed event) accident occured it would be covered, but that they would not reinsure afterwords. Track events that are in anyway timed are considered racing and is not covered in any way.

CS

[RallyJon]

I've seen two different ways of wording the "racing" exclusion:

1) You're not covered if you participate in a timed event. (Good for DE, bad for Solo and Rally)

2) You're not covered if you participate in an event on a racetrack. (Good for Solo and Rally, bad for DE)

Insurance companies can be real bastards, though, and there's no guarantee they'll pay. At least your lawyer will have something to work with if the policy doesn't specifically exclude the type of event.

I had an insurance company cancel my coverage when I let it slip I was doing TSD rallies. That's right, legal speed limit rallies on open roads. Unbelievable! They refused to cover ANY of my cars. So be very careful what you say on the phone to the CSR...

[atlporsche]

I hear that rally jon...I got rejected for coverage with USAA when I slipped and told them I autocrossed a CRX...I was like, "OK, then, I'll STOP autocrossing."

NOT

the car is sold and gone...no biggie now.

it makes you wonder how the pro rally/club rally guys do it...those cars have to be tagged and street legal...which means insured...I guess that's a fuzzy area...in transit, they're not competing technically...

sjd

[billwagnon]

I would think the potential liability (injury etc) would be much greater (like in the millions) on a public road full of school buses, church vans, and so on than on a closed course track.

[atlporsche]

it's a racket...I feel encouraged to test my limits on the street now where someone besides myself can get killed...

sjd

[pbs911]

If it ain't in writting it ain't covered! And even if it is in writting it will be argued that it isn't covered.
The only way to be sure the car is covered in DE events is to take out a specific policy for DE event, or to have the words "Drivers Education" in the covereage policy under a separate heading in the coverage portion of the policy w/o ANY reservations whatsoever!

Insurance company do not become fat by paying out claims.

[widebody911]

Any reduction in their liability is in their best intere$t. If they could write the policy such that you're not covered in a McDonald's drive-thru, they'd have already done it.

Originally posted by billwagnon
I would think the potential liability (injury etc) would be much greater (like in the millions) on a public road full of school buses, church vans, and so on than on a closed course track.

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by pbs911
The only way to be sure the car is covered in DE events is to take out a specific policy for DE event.....

Paul, do you have names of companies that provide this coverage?

thanks!

[Sarah]

This is an excellent topic. Thanks for posting it. We are checking with our Insurance Company too (Sentry Ins. out of WI) to see if they will cover driver training and driver education events. We want some more peace of mind when we both do DE next summer. (I'm just paranoid about something happening to it and then large repair expenses that would keep the porsche out of commission for a long time). I was also told if Insurance would cover it, it would probably be a separate policy than our regular insurance.

[NoLift911]

I recently inquired of this very thing from my State Farm agent and they contacted the home office.

Word I recieved is I am covered just as I was driving on the street.

From their perspective it is much less risk than driving to the local grocery store. Think about it.

Is it in writing? Nope, but the next DE I do I will ask for it in writing.

My agent said have fun and wear a helmet.

I am in VA if that may/not make a difference.

-Jeff
nolift911@hotmail.com

[kristian85]

Always check with your actual agent, explaining carefully what a DE is. And, carefully read your policy. My State Farm guy covered trackdays on my bikes.

[DANNOV]

It is my understanding that auto insurance policies are exclusionary, that is, unless the action is specifically excluded (timed event, etc), then what ever else happens is included in the coverage. We had this discussion about a year ago on this BBS. I had the misfortune to hit the wall on turn 12 (Canada Corner) at Road America last year in a PCA DE event. The problem - left wheels off track in mud - started at about 120 mph, but when I grazed the retaining wall the car was only going about 10 mph, so the damage was minor..about $2,500. My State Farm agent is also my brother-in-law and he said I was covered. However, he warned me that if I file for a claim they will likely put a specific exclusion in my policy that would ban my future coverage in DE events and my premium would certainly be increased on the 911, and probably on my other cars too. I decided $2,500 was a reasonable price to pay for my stupidity, and would forever teach me to stay away from the edge of the track on fast sections of the course, especially when it is wet. If anyone is interested I can post a picture and show you what $2,500 of damage looks like.

[s2per]

My State Farm agent has claimed my cars are covered at DEs for over 12 years now. Her thoughts were the same as others mentioned previously--you're safer on the track than on the street.

BUT, if I were to have an "incident", I think there would have to be some expen$ive damage before I'd file a claim. Especially after 2 tickets last year.

[ChrisBennet]

I don't think you can make blanked statements about insurance companies i.e. "State Farm covers DE". Here in New Hampshire , insurance companies seem to cover DE accidents. Accross the border in Massachusettes no insurance companies cover DE accidents.
I also think that the same insurance company can treat the same accidents differently. My 1st DE accident was covered without any problems. My 2nd DE claim was (initially) denied. Same policy, different day or person handling the claim.
-Chris

[DANNOV]

I have some doubts about whether you are safer on the track than on the street. If you consider a 2 day weekend DE event with perhaps 150 cars putting in 4 hours of track time each per day, that is 1200 hours of total track time for everyone. Usually you have at least one on track "incident" over a weekend, and sometimes more than just one. You can easily drive 1200 hours on road or street and not even see an accident let along be involved in one. Don't fool yourself there is a fair amount of risk in a DE event.

[APKhaos]

American Collectors Insurance offers coverage specifically for DE events.

Quote from their website at http://www.americancollectorsins.com/driversed.htm

Auto Physical Damage Insurance
for Driver's Ed Enthusiasts

Now available in CA, CT, FL, GA, IL MD, MI, NC, OH, and PA

Driver's Education is a club-sponsored, safe driving program designed to help sports car enthusiasts become better, safer, more consistent drivers, both on the track and off. If you participate in Driver’s Ed with your high-performance vehicle, you’ll want to purchase an American Collectors Driver’s Education Auto Physical Damage policy to cover loss or damage to your vehicle.

I'm trying to get them to cover VA as well. The one premium example I have is $300 for a season on an agreed value of $22,000 . Personally, I will take it in a new York minute when it becomes avaiable in VA.

YMMV. No association etc. Hope this help some of us!