what VIN number is the first 1973.5 911T ?

[Andy Snow]

My subject is pretty much my question. I hear that the 1973.5 911T is the better of the 73Ts. How can I tell if the car was built in the last half of 73, VIN number? Does the 73.5 have CIS and the other carburetors? Anybody got one to sell me?
All help appreciated
Regards -Andy
‘84 -Arrest-Me-Red Cab

[CamB]

Hmmmmm, better is a subjective assessment.

You should be able to tell a 73.5 - it has CIS injection (big oval/egg shaped airbox like a 74-83 car) vs MFI (throttle bodies topped by a flatter airbox with a long "snorkel"). I think the Euro versions might have still had carbs... someone with a suitable book might be able to help you out (I know there is enough info in "Original Porsche 911").

I believe there was another 10hp when the CIS was used, and CIS will use less fuel. However, the MFI probably sounds better, has better throttle response, is more fun to play with (subjective - could also be seen as more to screw up, harder to keep in tune), and is vastly superior for upgrade potential.

Cam

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Cameron Baudinet
1975 911S (in bits)
1969 911T

[campbellcj]

The factory's spec page for the 1973 models:
http://www.us.porsche.com/english/excitement/classic/911/1973.htm


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Chris C.
73 914 2.0
70 911E Targa
campbell.chris@gte.net

[Early_S_Man]

Andy,

You have been misinformed about which of the 2.4T engines is/was best! It was, without a doubt, the USA MFI 'TE' engine that was best of the 'T' engines! Unless you have bought into the BS put out by 'California Classix,' the sounds, 'feeling,' and responsivenes of the MFI system shared with all '69 thru '73 911E and 911S engines made the '72 and early (August thru Dec. '72 production) '73 911T the best bargain ever produced in Stuttgart!

Unless, of course, you specifically want a smog-controlled CIS engine without the stud-pulling problems of the 2.7 CIS engines! Not that the 73.5 'TK' engine was bad ... it just doesn't have the musical output of the induction-tuning that complements the early, wqual-length headers the way that MFI or Webers/Zenith carburetors do! Gas mileage is undoubtedly better with the CIS engine, but many CIS components are unique to the '73 model and hard to find.

I strongly suggest that you should broaden your search to include the best of the 'T' family, but try to drive an MFI 'T'example before you rule them out! I don't believe you will be disappointed! If you try an 'E' you might be spoiled, though!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[Andy Snow]

Thanks for your replies.
I didn’t mean to presume I know which early 911 is “better”. I am here to learn.
I am referring, I guess, to Zimmermann’s book “The Used 911 Story”. He states that in the 72 and early 73 the transmission needs to be disassembled to replace the mainshaft seal which he considers a major mistake, and he likes the CIS.
My purpose is to find an early 911 to use for sport. I am happy to have carburetors, or whatever. I like one I can drive more than I work on it. I will keep your advice in mind and drive as many as I can.
Thanks again.
Regards -Andy

[Saffs]

Andy,
"Better" is very subjective. There's definitely a pecking order of the most desirable 911 that we hear often. Mine 911 is often said to be the least desirable 911, the 2.7, with CIS. But after a top-end job and a thorough service, it's a great, reliable car. It's fast and nimble (harder shocks on it) to drive -- and I have driven an E and S -- I use it as a main car and often do long journeys.
It's what you want the car for that counts. And what looks good to you. If you find a nice CIS T, that's cool -- and, if well maintained, I'm sure it will be a great car, even if it hasn't got carbs. or MFI. Even though you should definitely explore MFI cars, they're really great.

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'75 911S Targa
'81 BMW Alpina C1 2.3

[This message has been edited by Saffs (edited 10-22-2001).]

[Randy W]

Andy, "better" regarding the 2.4 CIS or MFI '73 911Ts is subjective depending on whether you want great throttle response and 10 MORE HP (MFI), or better fuel economy and reportedly less maintenence (CIS). I have driven both (as well as 2.4 S and E) and, like Warren, I prefer the MFI version - it is not that thirsty and feels and sounds more like an early 911. It is significantly more sporty than the CIS version. MFI can be rebuilt and tweaked to perform extremely well, but it is arguably less user friendly than CIS to work on. All ROW/European 2.4Ts came with carburetors, none of the US 2.4Ts did.

The changeover from TE (MFI) to TK (CIS) designation for '73Ts occured sometime before 3/73 production (at engine #613 3001 according to Brett Johnson). The switch to the 915 mod that allows the mainshaft seal to be replaced from outside occured during 3/73 production at 5 speed transmission #733 7375 according to the Porsche factory workshop manual. The reason I know the trans change came after the introduction of the CIS, is because I have seen the early version box on an original early '73T CIS car.

With all due respect to Mr. Zimmerman, most early 911 buffs do not agree with his assessments of these cars. I have had experience with four early version magnesium 915 gearboxes, and you can eliminate almost all potential leaks by simply ensuring that the mainshaft is straight and the mainshaft seal is replaced by an experienced Porsche mechanic when you end up rebuilding it. It is not as problematic as Mr. Zimmerman makes it out to be, because these seals do not fail before a rebuild that often. The later version '73 5 speed box is pretty rare anyway.

Both '73Ts are great, the CIS could be argued to be a better daily driver, but few would walk away from a good 2.4T MFI unimpressed.

Randy Wells

[Jim Sims]

The '72 and early '73 MFI 911T's were the low end of the 911 line and when the cost of the maintenance of the MFI system began to bite many of the owners cut corners or installed carburetors. Therefore, it is common to find "cheap" early "MFI" T's on the market that no longer have the original MFI system or a properly functioning original MFI system. To go back to the MFI one has to find a complete system and usually rebuild it($$$!). MFI parts for these cars are dear (both in terms of cost and availability) plus some of the suppliers of parts for items like the MFI pump do not like to sell to individuals. I just finished working on a '73 911S with MFI and although from the performance standpoint the car is wonderful, from a mechanic's standpoint it's a "parts bin cludge". I'm told the MFI pump was originally used by Mercedes. I understand why this was necessary as custom designed parts and systems couldn't be justified given the low number of cars produced. However, the MFI fuel pump belt drive system looks like something the bean counters at GM designed: hard to tension belt, belt running through the tray edge rubber seals and "traps" for the uninformed or unwary ("be sure and put a cable tie right here on this oil supply line to hold up the fuel line") like a fuel line running just above the pump drive pulley in perfect position to to be worn through by the pulley and spray gasoline all over the top of the engine! If you get an MFI you'll need to be a good mechanic or have access to one who knows what he's doing and has the right skills (previous experience as a dentist or an obstetrician would be helpful). The MFI's are great machines but you've got to pay the price!

The '73T CIS would be a good vehicle for a daily driver but there isn't much one can do to enhance the performance as the pistons and CIS system tend to preclude most changes. One might gain something by doing work on the piston skirts and engine case to reduce windage losses but it isn't likely to be worth the effort. Many of the 73.5 T CIS parts are common to later years (I just finished renewing such a system) but the fuel distributor, injectors, heads, intake runners and a few other minor parts are unique. I was able to readily obtain all the parts I needed; later model fuel distributors may be used with an adapter kit.

Finally, look for rust in these early '70's cars; many have terminal body cancer!

Cheers, Jim

[Sunroof]

Hi
I own a 1973.5 T and the updates I am aware of are the CIS, new extended bumper guards,
and 915 transmission. Luckily for me, mine came with the beautiful "S" chrome exterior package and tinted windows. I have no complaints with the T but, a local Porsche dealer best described the "TOURING" model as the, "genteel english country gentlemans touring car". Compared to the "E" and "S" models they are the slowest, but that 2.4 will still give you a kick in the pants and pure Porsche handling. Its all 70's right down to the hand throttle for cold start. I know of a nice targa for sale in Atlanta if your interested. Good luck

Bob
'73.5 T