Boge strut differences M491/Narrowbody

[Jaskas]

Does anyone know is there difference in boge front strut for M491 (turbolook) and a normal carrera. Year model 1987.

If I have understood correctly the M491 partnumber is 911.341.042.05
And the normal carrera is 911.341.042.04

/Jaakko

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Jaskas

Does anyone know is there difference in boge front strut for M491 (turbolook) and a normal carrera. Year model 1987.

If I have understood correctly the M491 partnumber is 911.341.042.05
And the normal carrera is 911.341.042.04

/Jaakko

The difference is in the valving
/04 is regular
/05 is sport

[john walker's workshop]

Convert to Bilsteins for a huge improvement in your ride and handling. I wouldn't put Boges back on it.

[Jaskas]

I have bilsteins in my boge strut at the moment, but the axel on the other side seems to be worn and not round anymore. I have destroyed my hub as the bearing had spun inside the hub. Im thinking that the worn out axel is the reason to all this.

This is why im looking for a new strut. And the valving in the old shoch doesnt matter... Thanks Bill!

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Jaskas

I have bilsteins in my boge strut at the moment, but the axel on the other side seems to be worn and not round anymore. I have destroyed my hub as the bearing had spun inside the hub. Im thinking that the worn out axel is the reason to all this.

This is why im looking for a new strut. And the valving in the old shoch doesnt matter... Thanks Bill!

A new pair of Bilstein struts is a superior solution to Bilstein inserts in Boge struts

[Jaskas]

As a more costly alternative to just changing the boge strut is the KW set... Im a bit tempted at this point...

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Jaskas

As a more costly alternative to just changing the boge strut is the KW set... Im a bit tempted at this point...

I'm not sold on Kw, maybe they are ok maybe not. Just not enough info & history

Bilstein is a proven, quality product w/ some very nice known and tested attributes.

I never like to be an early adopter, too easy to get burned

[safe]

KWs are around €3000.

A set of Öhlins go for the same kind of money, but without struts (they need Bilstein). If I would go big, I would choose Öhlins, nothing better than that.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by safe

KWs are around €3000.

A set of Öhlins go for the same kind of money, but without struts (they need Bilstein). If I would go big, I would choose Öhlins, nothing better than that.

JRZ, Motion Control....

[safe]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

JRZ, Motion Control....

Not trying to start something, but Öhlins race credentials are pretty good.
For example:
Supplying several F1 teams.
Supplying all WRC teams.
Supplying all WTCC teames (despite that the series is sponsored by KW).

Apples and oranges of cause compared to relatively simple early 911 shock.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by safe

Not trying to start something, but Öhlins race credentials are pretty good.
For example:
Supplying several F1 teams.
Supplying all WRC teams.
Supplying all WTCC teames (despite that the series is sponsored by KW).

Apples and oranges of cause compared to relatively simple early 911 shock.

When you tout a very expensive shock that isn't even available for the op's car something is up and one wonders

I'm sure they make great shocks available for select cars at an exorbitant price

for a street 911 where the typical choices are Boge or Bilstein or KW or Koni
Bilstein is the tried and true standard, maybe some of the others are as good we''l have more evidence as the years pass

the op has Bilstein inserts in Boge struts, If a new strut is needed any way a reasonable upgrade would be to but 2 Bilstein hd struts, the versions used on 930 or some Carrrera models would be the way to go,

[panzerfaust]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

I'm not sold on Kw, maybe they are ok maybe not. Just not enough info & history

Bilstein is a proven, quality product w/ some very nice known and tested attributes.

I never like to be an early adopter, too easy to get burned

Agreed on being an early adopter

Kw's are wildly popular in Germany with extensive r&d facility and track proven nearly every weekend. They aren't likely to put out something that isn't fully baked to make a buck but they might be conservative on there settings for there first product. Nice thing is their price range span from a weekend hobbyist to pro teams on newer cars

Ther recent kit for the G 911's is most interesting, I'm getting ready to go full hog for some elephant goodies and I hope K&W will offer expanded kit that's a step or two up with raised spindles soon before I make the plung

[safe]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

When you tout a very expensive shock that isn't even available for the op's car something is up and one wonders

Öhlins are availible for early 911s. Used in historic rally and racing.
I've been really close to pulling the trigger on a set, but other projects has been more important.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by safe

Öhlins are availible for early 911s. Used in historic rally and racing.
I've been really close to pulling the trigger on a set, but other projects has been more important.

Ok, I just found that Ohlins are available for 911,
price $3750 for 2 inserts(I assume they go in the stock Bilstein struts + 2 monotube rears, Implied in the ad I found is that you also need Mode top mounts for an Additional $499



I'm sure that they are great shocks

compared to Bilstein hd Pelican pricing
2x struts w/ inserts $1682 + 2 rears $342 the pair +$14 for sport instead of hd

or
2x hd inserts for Boge ~$420 + the rears as above

It's an easy choice for most

ps The struts do go bad, I had to replace my Bilstein struts at ~100k mi, they can be rebuilt too.

[safe]

Well, I have gotten a price at around €3000 for a set of 4, but they require Bilstein struts. So with struts its more expensive than the KW, but if your willing to spend this kind of money I'm not sure it really matters.

They are not really a competitor to Bilstein or Boge, but if you want something thats better than Bilstein I think its the best you can get without going to something completely custom.

[Jaskas]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

To summarize a bit, I have a few different alternatives here:
1. Buy a used boge strut,
- unseen from ebay( Risk of the condition)
- about 200-300 €

2. Buy Bilstein struts with shocks
- proven solution
- raised spindles
- 2100 € incl local taxes and freight

3. The new KW kit.
- KW has a good reputation among newer Porsche owners
- possibly raised spindles
- 2700 € + freight ( maybe 50€)


I wonder how the shock absorber technology has developed since the time the bilsteins were developed to today compared to the KW kit? I dont can you even compare the shocks used in mountain bikes, where the development in resent 10 years has been significant. I´ll bet there should some development in the car shocks as well... This is my guessing only.
I assume that bilstein technology is quite old, but the KW should be up to date...

The other shock absorber companies like Öhlins ( or Bigem here in Finland) are not a solution for me as you need to buy the struts anyways...

My choise will propably be the KW or the used boge strut....

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Jaskas

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

To summarize a bit, I have a few different alternatives here:
1. Buy a used boge strut,
- unseen from ebay( Risk of the condition)
- about 200-300 €

2. Buy Bilstein struts with shocks
- proven solution
- raised spindles
- 2100 € incl local taxes and freight

3. The new KW kit.
- KW has a good reputation among newer Porsche owners
- possibly raised spindles
- 2700 € + freight ( maybe 50€)


I wonder how the shock absorber technology has developed since the time the bilsteins were developed to today compared to the KW kit? I dont can you even compare the shocks used in mountain bikes, where the development in resent 10 years has been significant. I´ll bet there should some development in the car shocks as well... This is my guessing only.
I assume that bilstein technology is quite old, but the KW should be up to date...

The other shock absorber companies like Öhlins ( or Bigem here in Finland) are not a solution for me as you need to buy the struts anyways...

My choise will propably be the KW or the used boge strut....

Since the kws only come as a 4 corner kit my guess is that you will end up w/ a used boge strut

My best advice, do your hone work

[3literpwr]

Porsche people tend to stick to what they know and this is evident with Bilstein. Granted, they are a fine product, but the valve codes where developed a long time ago on different tires. I think people would be surprised to find out how little science goes into some of these valve codes. The new KW product along with many of the other brands such as JRZ, Ohlins, and even what's on my car, Hotbits are superior products. I've been in the motorsport shock business for about 16 years now, and have dynoed, tuned and driven on many of these sets. I'm not saying Bilstein is a poor product, but they are street shocks with stiffer valve codes, not motorsport parts. In reality, the brand of Bilstein is so strong, that people don't ever seem to want to stray.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by 3literpwr

Porsche people tend to stick to what they know and this is evident with Bilstein. Granted, they are a fine product, but the valve codes where developed a long time ago on different tires. I think people would be surprised to find out how little science goes into some of these valve codes. The new KW product along with many of the other brands such as JRZ, Ohlins, and even what's on my car, Hotbits are superior products. I've been in the motorsport shock business for about 16 years now, and have dynoed, tuned and driven on many of these sets. I'm not saying Bilstein is a poor product, but they are street shocks with stiffer valve codes, not motorsport parts. In reality, the brand of Bilstein is so strong, that people don't ever seem to want to stray.

Unlike KW Bilstein monotube are rebuildable high pressure gas shocks, don't like the valving, they will re build to your spec for a very reasonable price.

sure there are a lot of niche products, and if you are adventurous have at it, I prefer something that works and has a history of working, many would disagree about their just being a simple street shock, but you are entitled to your opinion this being the internet and all.


I'm not selling anything here, you guys can use what ever you want but
I'll take a monotube high pressure gas shock over a low pressure and a low pressure over a twin tube any day.

adjustable? few need it and fewer will profit from it

Bang for the buck? Bilstein inserts in Bilstein struts over any of the other non niche choices

why Bilstein insert in a Bilstein strut? the upside down design lowers unsprung weight. Similar to using a lighter wheel or tire

Warranty, Bilstein after market are warranted for life and can be valved to suit.


are there other more expensive shocks that might be as good or better sure, In the right driver w/ the right car can profit from some of them, MCS would be my first choice, JRZ sure, maybe Ohlins, the twin tube KW would be real low on the list to look at though.

[blue72s]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The difference is in the valving
/04 is regular
/05 is sport

What about wider track?