What am I missing: Suspension Content

[Ayles]

I am going to refresh my suspension. I tend to lean towards bling and racier parts despite the cost... I guess you could say the car feels a little swimmy or soft at speed.

The budget I have set aside is around $1500 for the parts and another $500 or so for professional alignment and ride height adjustment. I plan to do the installation of everything.

The car is a gutted 1982 Targa with a high performance engine, Toyo R888s, 7' and 8" fuchs, stock sway bars F&R.

I have brand new turbo tie rods and ball joints from Elephant sitting on my work bench. I have also installed new rear sway bar bushings and adjustable drop links from Tarret. The car has Bilstein HDs all the way around and are likely stock and I can't imaging that any of the other bushings have been replaced.

Bilstein HD Front
Bilstein Sport Rear
Rebel RSR Front Bushings
Rebel RSR Rear Bushings
OEM front rubber sway bar bushings

[Luccia at Pelican Parts]

Ooo!! Great parts list. I do hope our tech articles will come in handy during your suspension project (linked below). Can take a peak at them and see what other items might be good to tackle while you're in there for this refresh. I linked directly to our suspension section so there will be additional input for what else to add to your list there. Hope you share some fun images with us once you begin this project.

Porsche 911 (1965-1989) Technical Articles - Pelican Parts

[Ayles]

Thanks! Some of those tech articles have been very helpful!! Especially the one on installing a Carrera Oil Cooler.

[motofoto]

That's essentially what I did with mine, except I stayed with HD's all around, did 21/29 TB's. I kept the stock carrera sway bars with Wevo mounts. I did the rennline monoballs up front and their strut braces. I really love the setup. Feels tight but still compliant enough for my tastes, and no squeaks or rattles. It was a nice step up. Feels like a good compromise between street and track.

I would do the TB's while I was in there personally. It would suck to pay to have it re cornerbalanced and aligned again, and it sounds like your tastes are probably similar to mine.

[motofoto]

Thinking further, I actually wonder if your car would feel even softer than it is now if you did the RSR bushings without changing the TB's? I believe there is some spring rate built into the original vulcanized rubber bushings that goes away when they're replaced with the RSR's.

[Ayles]

That's a great question and one I do not know the answer to...

[rwest]

I think you're budget might not be enough; I did mine a couple years ago and I was up around $3,000 in parts. I tried to keep it streetable, so used rubber bushings and nothing really exotic. I did do bearings since I had everything apart so that added to cost.

[Helix8]

Camber plate bushings? depending on ride height - bump steer kit - or at least steering rack spacers?

[Ayles]

Originally Posted by Helix8

Camber plate bushings? depending on ride height - bump steer kit - or at least steering rack spacers?

I have a bump steer kit as well. You reminded me that I had one...

[Ayles]

Originally Posted by rwest

I think you're budget might not be enough; I did mine a couple years ago and I was up around $3,000 in parts. I tried to keep it streetable, so used rubber bushings and nothing really exotic. I did do bearings since I had everything apart so that added to cost.

I've got new wheel bearings in the front.

[vansicklenmi]

I agree, budget too low for decent "track oriented" suspension.
Decent adjustable shocks at least $2000, performance alignment with Corner balance $ 1000. Not to mention having it bump steered ( not just installing the kit).

[Ayles]

So I went back to square one. Rethought what I wanted to do and how I use the car and will likely use it 99% of the time and decided to go with ER Rubber all the way around. Which will allow the budget to include Torsion bars. The budget has to be $2000 min though. Not including the alignment and ride height work, so I was a little off there.

I called Sander and apparently they sell everything to Elephant. Which I thought was interesting.

[douglas bray]

Originally Posted by Ayles

So I went back to square one. Rethought what I wanted to do and how I use the car and will likely use it 99% of the time and decided to go with ER Rubber all the way around. Which will allow the budget to include Torsion bars. The budget has to be $2000 min though. Not including the alignment and ride height work, so I was a little off there.

I called Sander and apparently they sell everything to Elephant. Which I thought was interesting.

Check out Rebel S Racing. Do the solid 21/29 Tbars. No need for Sanders on a street car and your shocks will be well matched. Elephant stock rubber bushing is also the best route.

[douglas bray]

If your shocks are old and worn you can send them to Juan at Bilstein in Poway, CA for a refresh and to match your Tbars even better. Far less than buying new ones. They have a form on their site you can fill out. Will be back to you before you finish the rest of your build.

[Walt Fricke]

It seems a pretty common business practice for a manufacturer of car performance parts for a variety of makes to have sales agreements with various retailers. May mean the manufacturer doesn't have to keep much inventory, especially where sales volumes are low. Save on sales salaries too?

Elephant had 36mm TBs in stock - at least a pair, which is all I cared about. No delay. Worth it if there is a small markup.

Are you saying Sander won't sell direct? Again, it is not uncommon for the manufacturer to sell direct, but at a discount to vendors, with the consumer price being about the same either way. Sander and SAW may be the only US manufacturers of Porsche T bars.

I don't think the contribution to spring rate of the factory bonded rubber bushings is enough to take into consideration short of trying to engineer things to a gnat's ass. I suspect not one driver in 100 has the kind of car feel the best professional drivers have developed which might detect such a difference. NASCAR may change air pressures in half pound increments, but us?

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Ayles

I am going to refresh my suspension. I tend to lean towards bling and racier parts despite the cost... I guess you could say the car feels a little swimmy or soft at speed.

The budget I have set aside is around $1500 for the parts and another $500 or so for professional alignment and ride height adjustment. I plan to do the installation of everything.

The car is a gutted 1982 Targa with a high performance engine, Toyo R888s, 7' and 8" fuchs, stock sway bars F&R.

I have brand new turbo tie rods and ball joints from Elephant sitting on my work bench. I have also installed new rear sway bar bushings and adjustable drop links from Tarret. The car has Bilstein HDs all the way around and are likely stock and I can't imaging that any of the other bushings have been replaced.

Bilstein HD Front
Bilstein Sport Rear
Rebel RSR Front Bushings
Rebel RSR Rear Bushings
OEM front rubber sway bar bushings

Have you consulted with some of the local Porsche Speed shops in Seattle to figure out what is the best combo. I found it well worth my while to discuss with Steve Weiner and Jeff Gamroth to find a setup that works for me.

[douglas bray]

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

It seems a pretty common business practice for a manufacturer of car performance parts for a variety of makes to have sales agreements with various retailers. May mean the manufacturer doesn't have to keep much inventory, especially where sales volumes are low. Save on sales salaries too?

Elephant had 36mm TBs in stock - at least a pair, which is all I cared about. No delay. Worth it if there is a small markup.

Are you saying Sander won't sell direct? Again, it is not uncommon for the manufacturer to sell direct, but at a discount to vendors, with the consumer price being about the same either way. Sander and SAW may be the only US manufacturers of Porsche T bars.

I don't think the contribution to spring rate of the factory bonded rubber bushings is enough to take into consideration short of trying to engineer things to a gnat's ass. I suspect not one driver in 100 has the kind of car feel the best professional drivers have developed which might detect such a difference. NASCAR may change air pressures in half pound increments, but us?

Also laughable is the need for a $500 front end alignment. I've got a set of Longacre camber plates and a set of small digital levels that have taken the place of my string jig. I can lower, set camber and toe on the back end of my car in under 90 minutes on my driveway with $110 worth of tool. Local shop wanted $500 just to align the front wheels.

Even funnier was the quote from a name listed above for a pair of Sanders Tbars at $800 and a multi month wait.

[Ayles]

Originally Posted by douglas bray

Also laughable is the need for a $500 front end alignment. I've got a set of Longacre camber plates and a set of small digital levels that have taken the place of my string jig. I can lower, set camber and toe on the back end of my car in under 90 minutes on my driveway with $110 worth of tool. Local shop wanted $500 just to align the front wheels.

Even funnier was the quote from a name listed above for a pair of Sanders Tbars at $800 and a multi month wait.

Is it really this easy?

[RichardNew]

At this point I would just take the car to John Walker in Seattle. Tell him how you intend to drive the car and let him do the the set-up on it. That will be the best money you're ever spent.


Derick Bell Testing My 911

Richard Newton
Useless Tech Stuff

[Ayles]

Thanks Richard, that's not really the point is it? I also have Fordahl, Group 2 motor sports, and Prova Motorsports less than a mile from where I live. I tried to use Greg Fordahl for this stuff but he was impossible to track down.

I think I can do a lot of this work myself which is why I even bother having this car in the first place.