First post!

[Mad Hunt]

I have been reading here occasionally over the last several years.

Last week after looking for years I finally found a 1983 911SC Coupe that I am interested in purchasing. I think that I have done my homework, and have a PPI scheduled at a reputable shop, but would very much appreciate any advice from the experts here on what to look for to insure that I have a good car before hand over the cash.

Thanks in advance.

[mickey356]

Not being a jerk, but look right here on the first page and you'll see a similar thread already started. Also try out the search function, there are lots of threads on this very subject, as well as a sticky or two.
First order of business is to purchase Waynes book upon new ownership.

[Mad Hunt]

I think I have already read the thread you mention, thanks for pointing it out though. Are you referring to Wayne's engine rebuild book?

[c0metdot]

Welcome. If its not that one, the next is always better.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

MH, probably the most important thing to make sure that the shop doing the PPI looks for is broken head studs (need to remove the rocker covers in order to get a proper look, but a leakdown test will indicate a problem, if they do the test before removing rocker covers) - maybe you'll get some really good news and they'll find that the horrid, Dilivar studs (the exhaust side studs that are notorious for breaking) have already been replaced with either OEM steel or some aftermarket variety. That is a very costly repair (why I said "most important").

[Mad Hunt]

Thanks for the info on the head studs. I have already requested that the shop perform a leak down test, so we will see.

[Mad Hunt]

Originally Posted by c0metdot

Welcome. If its not that one, the next is always better.

Yeah, this is what I keep telling myself. The chase is part of the fun...

[mickey356]

Yes, that's the book Im referring to.

And to be a little more realistic about the "in depth" PPIs most recommend - I'm all for it BUT you'll be hard pressed to find an owner who won't show some concern with a shop YOU pick tearing into THEIR car, not to mention it taking the better part of a day to get the car to and from said shop. Also those kinds of PPIs will set you back serious money so if you can get an owner to allow it choose the car(s) you have those done on wisely.
Now, many will say if an owner won't allow it you should pass in, which case if I ever have a car for sale, and you want me to allow you to pick a shop to remove the rocker covers on my car, you should probably pass on my car because there is no way in hell I'd let an unfamiliar tech do that to my car if it wasn't absolutely necessary.
I wish people would present the whole PPI thing in a more realistic manner. Yes, they can be helpful. And yes, they can show issues (though I think I good test drive and knowing what to listen for and look for will give almost the same data), but they are NO guarantee and therefore somewhat misrepresented by many people. I feel they give most new potential owners false sense of security. I think what should be stressed more is a "hope for the best, be prepared for the worst" approach. Meaning buy the car you are most comfortable with but be prepared to sink a lot of money into it when something goes wrong, and something will more than likely go wrong (yes, I know, it's not an absolute) The notion that there is a course of action to protect yourself from buying a car with issues is.....well....silly. The reality is you are buying a car that is 30+ years old and waaayyyy out of any realistic lifespan so be prepared to deal with that reality and enjoy.

[Bill Douglas]

Nice that you are looking at SC's. Great cars.

I hope it checks out well and you get the SC.

As you know already; head studs and rust... And the leakdown type tests will show things up if the engine is worn out. The shop will know pretty quickly if it's a well looked after car or not too. So have fun

[Luccia at Pelican Parts]

Welcome to the Pelican community, Mad Hunt! You've come to the right place. I hope everything goes well and you are able to purchase that 911SC. Don't forget to check out our DIY tech article library for some very useful information as well (posted below). If you have any parts or forum questions please do not hesitate to reach out to me. Enjoy your time here.

Porsche 911 (1965-1989) Technical Articles - Pelican Parts

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by mickey356

And to be a little more realistic about the "in depth" PPIs most recommend - I'm all for it BUT you'll be hard pressed to find an owner who won't show some concern with a shop YOU pick tearing into THEIR car, not to mention it taking the better part of a day to get the car to and from said shop. Also those kinds of PPIs will set you back serious money so if you can get an owner to allow it choose the car(s) you have those done on wisely.
Now, many will say if an owner won't allow it you should pass in, which case if I ever have a car for sale, and you want me to allow you to pick a shop to remove the rocker covers on my car, you should probably pass on my car because there is no way in hell I'd let an unfamiliar tech do that to my car if it wasn't absolutely necessary.
I wish people would present the whole PPI thing in a more realistic manner. Yes, they can be helpful. And yes, they can show issues (though I think I good test drive and knowing what to listen for and look for will give almost the same data), but they are NO guarantee and therefore somewhat misrepresented by many people. I feel they give most new potential owners false sense of security. I think what should be stressed more is a "hope for the best, be prepared for the worst" approach. Meaning buy the car you are most comfortable with but be prepared to sink a lot of money into it when something goes wrong, and something will more than likely go wrong (yes, I know, it's not an absolute) The notion that there is a course of action to protect yourself from buying a car with issues is.....well....silly. The reality is you are buying a car that is 30+ years old and waaayyyy out of any realistic lifespan so be prepared to deal with that reality and enjoy.

Paragraphs. They are underrated.

Look, I feel your rant. Had a buddy PPI a mint 20k miles 89 930. Found the big wide engine mount cross member broken at the passenger side - a year after the PPI . Like, bro-effing-ken. Not attached, not nuttin. It was an old break and it was profound. The Porsche dealer flat out missed it.

Do what Rawknees says and have the lower valve covers removed and check the exhaust studs that hold the heads on. Check them to 25 ft lbs.

This is the quintessential Achilles heel of the SC.

Sorry, but not sorry, about your anguish.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

b.a.b. !!!

[mickey356]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Paragraphs. They are underrated.

Look, I feel your rant. Had a buddy PPI a mint 20k miles 89 930. Found the big wide engine mount cross member broken at the passenger side - a year after the PPI . Like, bro-effing-ken. Not attached, not nuttin. It was an old break and it was profound. The Porsche dealer flat out missed it.

Do what Rawknees says and have the lower valve covers removed and check the exhaust studs that hold the heads on. Check them to 25 ft lbs.

This is the quintessential Achilles heel of the SC.

Sorry, but not sorry, about your anguish.

Not sure I'm tuned in to your comments about paragraphs and being sorry?

If you think that was a rant.....

I am not saying a PPI is a waste of time, just that they are over rated (like you feel about paragraphs). Your friends case with the 89 Turbo...my case....and cases when I haven't gotten one done (I'm driving a 912 that I didn't get the engine looked at but continues to be as solid as the day is long).
What I am saying is they are expensive and not all owners are willing to submit to having their exhaust studs torqued 7 lbs more than recommended (what happens if during the inspection one of the studs snaps?).
Admittedly this topic is a hot spot for me; not in that PPIs are bad, just that they will not guarantee anything, which many seem to imply when instructing newer prospective buyers.
Now, can we move on to IMS retro fits for 996's and what is the best oil to use?

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by mickey356

Now, can we move on to IMS retro fits for 996's and what is the best oil to use?

Motul 300v4t 15w50 - all others are goat piss by in comparison!

[OldSpool87]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Motul 300v4t 15w50 - all others are goat piss by in comparison!

Don't forget to reverse the gases on your AC while your at it.

[Bucketlist]

I guess the need for a PPI is equal to the experience of the buyer. As a seller I would never let anyone put a wrench on my car, or remove it from my control. Negotiate a price as is where is and let the buyer beware!

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by OldSpool87

Don't forget to reverse the gases on your AC while your at it.

It's interesting how that Kellog's/"reverse the fookin' gases" dude disappeared - haven't seen him posting up about how he had rendered all other a/c systems obsolete, in a long time.

Originally Posted by Hot Euro

I guess the need for a PPI is equal to the experience of the buyer. As a seller I would never let anyone put a wrench on my car, or remove it from my control. Negotiate a price as is where is and let the buyer beware!

I'm right there with you, Steve (not like THAT! ); I would not need to get a PPI done on a car, due to my experience and mad skillzzzzzz , and would not allow a car that I was selling to be taken to a shop, etc for a PPI to be performed. I would just wait for a buyer that wasn't concerned with that.

[Mad Hunt]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

It's interesting how that Kellog's/"reverse the fookin' gases" dude disappeared - haven't seen him posting up about how he had rendered all other a/c systems obsolete, in a long time.



I'm right there with you, Steve (not like THAT! ); I would not need to get a PPI done on a car, due to my experience and mad skillzzzzzz , and would not allow a car that I was selling to be taken to a shop, etc for a PPI to be performed. I would just wait for a buyer that wasn't concerned with that.

The seller has graciously agreed to transport the car about an hour from the location where it is now located at his expense for the inspection, so I'm happy with that.

This is my first air cooled purchase, so the comfort factor vs the cost works for me. I mean the PPI can't hurt things, I guess not until they start snapping of head studs...

I appreciate all of the feedback.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Mad Hunt

The seller has graciously agreed to transport the car about an hour from the location where it is now located at his expense for the inspection, so I'm happy with that.

This is my first air cooled purchase, so the comfort factor vs the cost works for me. I mean the PPI can't hurt things, I guess not until they start snapping of head studs...

I appreciate all of the feedback.

No snappie on the head studs. They should just take the torgue to 25 fl lbs then stop. In fact, have them take it to only 20. The nuts will not move on the stud. You are not tightening, you are seeing if the shaft is sheared - they shear sideways at rust pits but still appear ok. 20 ft lbs will twist them off if they are compromised. Talk to the owner about this beforehand

Paragraphs - just bust your post into smaller paragraphs. easier on the eyes.

Rant - frustration rant not a furious rant and you are correct there is no guarantee.

Sorry but not sorry is a "newer" expression that just means I feel bad for your pain but it is what it is.