How do you jack the entire front of the 911 at once (center jack)

[sugarwood]

On a related note, has anyone noticed the body flex that occurs when you only jack the front? I had jack stands on the 2 red dots the other day, and went to open the driver's door. When I closed the door, with the car still jacked up front, I noticed it did not seat correctly, and was bumping into the door latch plate in the door sill (whatever it's called) ie: The door would not close correctly while the front was jacked. Is this bad for the car? I started to imagine the car getting bent like a taco, and staying that way. Once the car was on the ground, the door closed fine.


If you lived next door, it would take 1.4 seconds to just point to the spot with your finger.
But you don't. So we have this.

Originally Posted by mnez

I jack the front using the thick crash bar in front of the air conditioning condenser, with a small block on wood on the jack so the arm of the jack doesn't crush the air dam. Right in the center where the nub is, lots of room to place the jack stands wherever you want, all in one go.
I've been jacking there for years, no issues at all.

Are you referring to the orange circle?
Seems far from ideal, as it puts a ton of flex onto the bolt points on the bar.
I find it very hard to believe this would ever be endorsed by the manufacturer.

Originally Posted by wayner

I jack the rear up first and put it on Jack stands

Now that I have a bit of clearance I use a 4 foot 4x4 on the jack.

I place it across the front of the floor pan and bring the Jack in from under the door. That way I get the entire front up without obstructing the front end. So I can easily place Jack stands under the front of the car at those red spots

Can you explain what you mean by "across the front of the floor pan"?
Can you actually mark the photo and repost it?

Originally Posted by Porsche 2

To lift the front of the car, I place a 2x4 between the two red dots, and on the crossmember, between the AC condenser guard and the fuel tank. The 2x4 should be long enough to fit flat on the cross member between the front suspension mounts, with approx 1/2 to 1 inch clearance on each end from the mounts. I had to shave a little off of one edge of the 2x4 for comfortable clearance to ensure no stress being applied to the guard or the fuel tank.

Is the blue line what you call a "cross member"
Can someone else verify the blue line is a safe place to jack?
Seems like sheet metal, and not a structural support.

[Ronnie's.930]

Wood, one thing you can do which makes front lifting very simple, quick and safe is to put a length of boxed steel tubing (I use 2x2) against the torsion bar covers (the red circles in your pic) - the bar goes perpendicular to the torsion bars - and lift from there. The tube needs to be long enough to run left to right and overlap the covers a little bit (easier to position if there is some overlap to work with). You simply put the boxed steel tube on the jack saddle, positioned properly, and lift away. The front end raises (both wheels at once), place jack stands of choice under the boxed tube, towards the outer portions, and lower/remove jack. I use some sections of radiator hose slipped over the boxed tubing so there is no metal-to-metal contact with the torsion bar covers and also the rubber provides some anti-slip.

Here's a visual of it that Bob K just did and emailed to me - just picture bar moved to where your red dots are.

[sailchef]

You need to be careful not to catch the front lip.









I did not block rear wheels until car was up and on jack stands.

Proceed with caution!

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sailchef

You need to be careful not to catch the front lip.

Not buying this. Not enough structural integrity.

Yes, the 911 front end is light. But better options exist.

The 1" X maybe 1/8" vertical is supporting the front end.

[Bob Kontak]

Here is the bar placement Ronnie is talking about.

[Geneman]

i have never heard of jacking a 911 up at that point ( orange circle) STOP STOP !!! that is recipe for disaster!! there is NO structural support there at ALL. The cross beam people are referring to is under this metal plate ( see blue circle) . you can lift under this cross beam to get both tires off ground ( or either side)

[lsf911]

Sugarwood,

Cut a 2x4 the width of the metal plate I marked in the photo. Make it as wide as the bolts. Under that point is the crossmember, that will be a solid lifting point. Place your jack in the center of the 2x4 and lift.

[sugarwood]

Ronnie and Bob, thanks for that clarification.
I got it. You jack by the center of the bar, then you just leave the bar in place, and put the jack stands on the bar itself, not the car.
In effect, you're jacking and placing jack stands on the same support spot (red dots). Bar stays on the car the entire time.

[sugarwood]

On a related note, has anyone noticed the body flex that occurs when you only jack the front? I had jack stands on the 2 red dots the other day, and went to open the driver's door. When I closed the door, with the car still jacked up front, I noticed it did not seat correctly, and was bumping into the door latch plate in the door sill (whatever it's called) ie: The door would not close correctly while the front was jacked. Is this bad for the car? I started to imagine the car getting bent like a taco, and staying that way. Once the car was on the ground, the door closed fine.

[mreid]

Place the jackstands where the front pads of the two post lift are contacting the car in the picture above. This gives you access to everything without your supports getting in the way. I rebuilt the entire front end, brakes, steering rack, replaced the mc, and added coilovers using those points for support.

[Porsche 2]

Cut a piece of 2x4 to fit between the: gas tank, A/C condenser "basket", and the two front suspension brackets (almost touching both), so that it is up against the structural cross member. Place the jack pad in the middle of this 2x4 and jack the car up. Done this for many years with no damage.

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

On a related note, has anyone noticed the body flex that occurs when you only jack the front? I had jack stands on the 2 red dots the other day, and went to open the driver's door. When I closed the door, with the car still jacked up front, I noticed it did not seat correctly, and was bumping into the door latch plate in the door sill (whatever it's called) ie: The door would not close correctly while the front was jacked. Is this bad for the car? I started to imagine the car getting bent like a taco, and staying that way. Once the car was on the ground, the door closed fine.

I never lift 1 corner by it self, the front or the rear both at the same rate. Go back and forth using 1 jack a little at a time or 2 jacks.

I've been told that on turbos you can do damage to the rear wheel flairs by twisting the tub to much.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Geneman

The cross beam people are referring to is under this metal plate ( see blue circle) . you can lift under this cross beam to get both tires off ground ( or either side)

No, that is not the cross beam people are referring to.

The white bar is the initial "cross beam" mentioned.

Now, I do like the under the pan thing. My car is in the air right now. I measured. It's 3' back. Do you come in from behind the wheel to access?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

I never lift 1 corner by it self,

For the front, until Ronnie told me about the cross beam, I would always jack up one side then the other. 2 steps maybe, but now reading through this thread I see there are much better ways.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

[IMG]

Ronnie and Bob, thanks for that clarification.
I got it. You jack by the center of the bar, then you just leave the bar in place, and put the jack stands on the bar itself, not the car.
In effect, you're jacking and placing jack stands on the same support spot (red dots). Bar stays on the car the entire time.

Yes, you can leave the bar in place with jackstands, or if more room is needed there, put the stands at the factory lift points behind the front wheels (like Reid mentioned).Also, if the front wheels don't need to come off, you can place boards under the wheels/tires after the car is raised and set it down on the boards in order to remove the jack & bar - can get some serious front end height that way if you want extra room to work (or yer a big guy, like Bob!!!).

[911pcars]

The front torsion bar mount covers are secure support locations. However, rolling a floor jack in this area with a 2x4 might be difficult due to the existing ride height. Here's one option:

Remove the underbody pan that covers the front crossmember and install a spacer to eliminate the gap between it and the crossmember above it. With the gap eliminated, one can now raise the front end with the floor jack under the pan/crossmember.

Here, I've installed some scrap 1/8x1" aluminum bar across the length of the metal pan and affixed it with a few flat head screws threaded into the aluminum. The countersunk screws should be flush on both ends after installation. You can be more precise with the material thickness, but this dimension was sufficient to not distort the pan.


The painted target as shown identifies the support area for jacking. Position the floor jack directly under the shield, then lift the entire front end. If your ride height is too low, use the factory jack receptacle and lift one side high enough to roll the floor jack into position. Lift, then position jack stands, 2x4, etc. to support at the front torsion bar covers.


Lifting from the center/front is also handy to perform a tripod lift to measure/confirm rear ride height.

Sherwood

[island911]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Not buying this. Not enough structural integrity.

Yes, the 911 front end is light. But better options exist.

The 1" X maybe 1/8" vertical is supporting the front end.

Weird that I find myself disagreeing with you, but here it is.

Clearly there IS enough structural integrity right there. (picture shows nothing failing)

That bar is designed to take not just static loading of the front end weight, but also dynamic loading of the front-end weight. --like smacking the concrete of a steep driveway.

[DaddyGlenn]

I put a 2x4 across here (yellow line below) and jack in the middle. Never had a problem.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by island911

Clearly there IS enough structural integrity right there. (picture shows nothing failing)

An argument in your favor is that if you lift at the front lip less of the weight will come off the rear wheels vs. lifting at the cross member/pan. I can lift a railroad tie at one end but grabbing it closer to the middle adds weight.

It just does not look like a warm comfy place to put a floor jack to me. I do not like what appears to be a lack of substance. Can I prove it's a failure point? Nope. Just me eyeballing it. That is why I don't buy it and that is simply my opinion.

[techweenie]

While it clearly works in the example, I personally would not use the crash bar for the front condenser on a pre impact bumper car. A 2 x 4 across the stamping between the front t-bar mounts (per Glenn) spreads the weight. In fact, I usually use a 2 x 4 long enough to sit on both t-bar caps. If the car is lowered, I drive it up on to wood blocks first.