Possible bonehead move

[Argo]

Winterized the car today - last step was pulling the plugs and pouring a few cc's of WD-40 through a plastic tube into the plug holes. Just as I poured the last tubeful into the last cylinder, I realized that I had grabbed the can of silicone spray instead of WD-40 (same size, shape and color can; what can I say?). Is this going to react badly with the oil and create a big problem in the spring? It doesn't seem like it would, but I don't want sticky rings or a gummy mess in there. Should I fire it up again, clean it out and do it over?
Also, I noticed that after the car sits for a week or two, it won't go into any gear without working the clutch and applying extra pressure on the stick. Once it goes into gear once, it is fine from then on. What's up with this? If it sticks after a couple of weeks, what's it going to do next spring?
Once again, thanks in advance for the advice .....

Argo
88 Targa

[Superman]

My feeling is that the biggest potential problem you have created is the potential for killing your catalytic converter. Silicon kills CATs, and does so pretty quickly, according to what I have heard. Perhaps the solution would be to squirt WD-40 in there a few times over the winter. Then after chanign oil as well as possible, remove your CAT prior to spring startup. Your neighbors will love the sound. Run the engine a bit and then change oil again. Hopefully this will remove all traces of silicon.

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'83 SC

[Doug Zielke]

WD-40 is more of a solvent than a lubricant. I wouldn't put it into the cylinders of any engine, as it would tend to wash away what oil film is already inside the bore. A better bet would be some light oil like 10w or Marvel Mystery oil. Also good is OMC Outboard Motor Storage Spray (sometimes called "fogging oil"...that's what I use in my m/c's when I store them.)

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'81 SC Coupe (aka: "Blue Bomber")
Member: SCWDP
Canada West Region PCA
The Blue Bomber's Website
"If it ain't broke...we'll help you fix it 'til it is!"

[Jim Sims]

Oxygen sensors like silicone even less than the catalytic converters. Even with an oil change yours may be toast. That silicone stuff is handy but dangerous. Sorry. Jim

[Argo]

Happily for me the cat converter is hanging on the garage wall (I have a test pipe). As far as the O2 sensor goes, well, one out of two isn't bad. I think I'll fire it up and get it over with now so I have time before next season to install a new sensor if necessary. What are the symptoms of a toasted sensor - rough idle?
BTW, I got the WD-40 idea off a porschenet tech tip. Guess I didn't find this board soon enough ...

Argo
88 Targa

[speeder]

I don't understand why you would want to squirt anything in the cylinders if you are just parking it for the winter. There is motor oil in it, and it's a pretty well sealed deal. If you're concerned, just connect the battery and turn it over or start it once a month. I've had lots of cars that sat for months with no special prep and never had a problem.

[RoninLB]

I agree with Dougs educated reply.

[Argo]

I thought about just disabling the fuel pump and turning it over a few times to coat the cylinders, but it's going to be stored for 8 months and I found a Porsche bulletin that said I should lube if it sits more than 3 months. Also, it gets really cold here and I didn't want to do a bunch of relatively (dry) starts with a 10 degree F engine temperature. In retrospect, I agree with Doug also. At least I got to add my $.02 to the "job well done?" classic screw-ups thread ....

Argo
88 Targa

[Doug Zielke]

The rings like a little bit of extra oil around them to prevent "intimate" contact (as in rusted) with the cylinder walls.

I believe it's better to let sleeping motors lie, then start or crank them for nothing.
But, when spring comes, disable the fuel pump and operate the starter until you see some oil pressure return to the motor. Then take a nice, long drive to blow away the cob-webs.

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'81 SC Coupe (aka: "Blue Bomber")
Member: SCWDP
Canada West Region PCA
The Blue Bomber's Website
"If it ain't broke...we'll help you fix it 'til it is!"

[Evans, Marv]

First, I would put gasoline stabilizer in the gas if it's going to set for 8 months. Fill the tank up as full as possible & run it for awhile to circulate the stabalized fuel through the fuel system. Second, if you want to spray something in the cylinders, you can buy fogging oil in aerosol cans. It's for just the thing you're going to do - store the engine for a period of time. Third, if you don't drive the car for a period of time, the clutch (friction disk) will stick to the flywheel making it impossible to disengage it. To get it unstuck, most people say the best thing to do is put the back wheels up on stands, start the car in neutral & then apply the brakes or ebrake. You'll probably hear a "twang" sound when the disk separates from the flywheel. I'd put the car on stands if you are going to store it for that long. You might even be able to start it up & run it periodically on the stands (but I would still put the gas stabalizer in the fuel).

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Marv Evans
'72 911E

[Argo]

Already did the stabilizer thing - 8 months would definitely have done a nice varnish job on the fuel system otherwise. Ironically, I was going to use the fogging spray but was advised on another thread that it, too, would screw up the O2 sensor (advice which I now believe to be faulty). Not sure I understand your advice about putting it up on stands, starting in neutral and putting on brake. If it's running in neutral, why would applying the brakes do anything to free up the plate? I could see it if it were on stands, running in gear and then apply brakes with clutch pushed in, but that means I would have to start it in gear, otherwise I wouldn't be able to get it in gear and that seems like a definite no-no after an 8 month lay-up (real tough on the starter).
The Porsche bulletin said to store it in gear, but is silent on the clutch issue.
I appreciate all the advice - clearly there is much for me to learn.

Argo
88 Targa

[makaio]

As doug said, use a engine fogging agent, like out-board motor lube, or Bombardier's Sea-doo lube. That's what I put in my personnel water craft each winter before I store them. I would fire the car back up, and burn off the Wd-40 and silicone spary. Then fog it with the lube.

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Matt Chamblin
78 911 SC

[This message has been edited by makaio (edited 10-24-2001).]

[Jim Sims]

Argo, If it makes you feel any better oxygen sensors (and cat converters) don't last forever. I consider them to be consumables; even unleaded gas contains enough trace contaminates to diminish their performance and destroy them over time and after enough miles and years they often need to be replaced. I wouldn't install a new one until you have thouroughly purged the engine of silicone; this may take an oil change interval. It may also be possible to save your present sensor($200 plus installation socket?) by removing it before you restart your engine. The mounting hole would have to be plugged and your engine management system would likely be in a limp in mode plus you would need to ensure your fuel system doesn't go too lean. Others here are more familar with these systems. Ask them about saving your oxygen sensor. Jim

[Argo]

You're absolutely right; as near as I can tell, the O2 sensor is possibly the original or, if not, it hasn't been replaced for quite a few miles/years. At 86k the car is ready for a 30k service and this sensor should probably be replaced anyway as a preventive measure (as well as the head temperature sensor from what I have read). It looks like a fairly straightforward job and I was contemplating replacing it anyway, so if it's toasted no big deal.
I still find it hard to believe that a few cc's of silicone mixed in with 10 quarts of motor oil could have such a negative impact. I thought about your idea of removing it while I burned all the crap off, but I'd probably just create a new problem by running it too lean (the problem solving / new problem creating domino effect of car repair!). I've decided to drain the crankcase and replace that oil (just did a pre-storage oil change so the oil in the reservoir is new and should still be clean) and then fire it up to burn everything off. If it kills the sensor, so be it - I'll replace it and have a nifty ornament for my key chain to keep me humble.

Argo
88 Targa

[stuttgart]

Hey , that bring's me to a question for you guy's .. what are some good things to do for winterizing a 911 I have only had it since the start of summer and this will be my first winter and I will . be putting it up for the winter months.. any suggestions would be great!

[sweater914]

definitely some sort of spray into the engine, air-cooled engines that sit for extended periods of time without running in damp climates tend to rust, big problem for aviation engines, can't give you much advice on the O2 sensor or the cat, the other fellas seems to have much better input

[Argo]

Well, I sure can't recommend coating the cylinders with silicone!

Seriously: 1) condition leather, treat rubber seals and clean car inside and out; let dry thoroughly (inside doors, other places where water can pool and start rust) 2)warm it up with a nice drive then change the oil 3) add fuel stabilizer, then drive again to circulate new oil and stabilizer through engine. 4) pump tires up to 50 psi and park in storage spot 5) remove plugs and add 3-5 cc's of engine oil (WD-40 is probably a bad idea, silicone spray is definitely a bad idea, fogging oil is probably a good substitute for engine oil) 6) disable fuel pump (fuse won't accomplish this in an 88 Targa; pull black relay under driver seat if applicable 7) run starter briefly to distribute oil in cylinders and coat rings then don't start again til spring 8) remove battery 9) put a drying agent in car if stored in a wet/warm climate (a pan full of charcoal briquets should work 10)paper towels under windshield wipers so they don't stick to glass 11) leave handbrake off and car in gear 12) roll car forward or backwards a foot or two each month to avoid flat spots in tires 13) if there are mice or squirrels where you're going to store the car, cover the intake and exhaust inlets/outlets to keep the little creatures from nesting inside and doing major damage

There are a lot of web sites that address this job; use a google search of the net and the search feature here and on Rennlist. Warning: not all sources agree on specifics; some say put the car on stands, others say don't, etc. Research the issue and make your best guess. Mine may not be a complete list as I'm doing it from memory.

As far as my particular problem, I got tired of the suspense and just started it and burned off the silicone and oil. It smoked for a few minutes then seemed to run just fine - quick start, smooth idle, quick throttle response. Maybe the gods took mercy on me and let me off with a warning!

Argo
88 Targa

[Oldporsche]

I would probably pull the sensor plug the hole and start the thing up. Let the motor cool down. I would then I pull the plugs, squirt a little engine oil from a squirt gun and rotate the engine over to fog/coat everything in the cylinder chamber. Then put the plugs back in.

In case of an inoperable O2 sensor, here's a suggestion from my local auto parts place.

Try to wire brush (clean up) the end of the sensor that's in the exhaust stream. They simply hold it against a wire wheel and clean it up. Nine times out of Ten, this works.

Good luck,
David Duffield

[Evans, Marv]

Argo:
Sorry I didn't explain the clutch thing very well. You start the car in neutral & run the car for awhile so it will restart easily. Then you put it in first or second & start it & apply the brakes. You pretty much figured that out already. There has been some discussion about this before too. You can do a search on the threads. I've been though it a couple of times with my 912, since it has sat for some long periods of time.

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Marv Evans
'72 911E

[Argo]

I got it now, Marv, thanks.

Argo
88 Targa