Brent's modest Carrera 3.2 log

Bleedsblue · 04-29-2016, 04:34 PM

Entering a fourth year of happy ownership, I'm finally beginning to modify my 911 (ruin it, I mean, obviously) and wanted a place to log the slow evolution, ask questions, and hopefully help in some small way on this amazing resource.

It took me about three years to start changing things on this car because A) stock, I think it's pretty ideal, B) nothing was really broken on the car and I like to upgrade when stock stuff goes bad, and C) in the meantime, I bought a massive project E34 M5 from a good friend and have been spending all of my discretionaries on that project: build thread link.

Quick story time: BMW was my first love, and out of high school I scrapped together my enormous Target Sales Associate portfolio and bought a clean albeit high-miles E36 M3. Over five years I learned how to fix every part of that car, acquired tools, and basically fell hook/line/sinker for ze Germans. I sold the M3 because it was a coupe and I always wanted a four door, so I started searching for M3 sedans of the same vintage. This car now tears up local tracks @ 180k miles, still on the original engine, trans, diff, even clutch:

Around this time (2013) Ms. Bleedsblue and I had just graduated college and I went down to Austin to move her in with me up in Colorado. As usual, before the trip and on my arrival, I was scanning Craigslist. I had exchanged emails with a guy selling an over-priced E36 M3 sedan in the right color combo, but it was also automatic; then for gigs and shizzles I contacted the owner of a 911 I felt was at least $5k under market price.

This 911 was about 30min from my future parents'-in-law house, and cheap enough to overlap with really mint, low mileage E36 M3 sedans. Always up to go check out a cool car, Ms. Bleedsblue and her awesome mom came with me to check out the 911. I warned them that for this price, the car probably had some issues, but I wasn't opposed to a project if it gained me entry into air-cooled ownership.

To my unbelieving senses, the car was a perfectly honest higher-mileage (120s thousand miles), two gentleman-owner, all original paint/body panel, zero issue car from CA originally and Texas the last 5 years. I shook hands with the owner and told him I'd be back in touch that afternoon (he graciously agreed to forestall calling back the five other interested parties blowing up his phone), and went back to Austin feeling like a virgin touched for the first time. There was some quick number-checking and loan applying while shaking with anticipation, and I locked the car down with a quick PayPal deposit.

So that's how I flew down to Austin to help my girlfriend move to Colorado, and ended up bringing back my dream car as a 24th birthday present to myself. My friends were financing (more expensive) Jettas, Corollas, etc, and here I am acting like I don't have student debt and financing a potentially ruinous money pit.

About the only thing the car needed right off the bat was tires; so of course being April and driving through eastern Colorado, a blizzard hit

If you can imagine the pucker factor, as a young person driving your 24-hour old enormous financial commitment on 8-year-old Exaltos in a blizzard. It was the greatest drive of my life. And this thing cranked right up first try the next morning, in 20 degree weather. The car was already winning me over.

Since then, I've replaced the tires, battery, and voltage regulator; beyond oil and gas, that's it. It's been a good 3 years and 10,000 miles so far.

Bleedsblue · 04-29-2016, 04:35 PM

I went to my first autocross in it:

Behold the cone ruin I smote in my wake:

More recently, I finally got it detailed professionally:

I lowered the rear another smidge, and the front much more (hey look, free beer recommendation):

And then took it to Dart Auto locally, for a pro alignment, c/b, and while it was there, turbo tie rods (and clutch spring, which I didn't even know was missing). Dave @ Dart says it's as low as possible without causing handling issues (stock TBs, and Billies)--plus to raise the rear anymore, he would have had to re-index, and I wanted to keep that $700 on my CC--plus I'll be doing some weight reduction and it'll come up a bit with that.

I've always wanted a race seat in a 911 since I was probably 14, and after the alignment the 16x8 BBS RS just weren't filling the rear guards anymore with -2 camber. So used Sparco Evo ($400) and Euro 16x7 front, 17x9 rear showed up, the Euros to run auto-x/track rubber with while I rebuild the RS.

The Evo was surprisingly easy to install (I used the Speedster OEM seat belt bracket), though I'll post pictures of the install later for opinions. The rear of the car already came up a bit with the stock power driver seat out:

That brings us to the current project, the BBS RS.

Bleedsblue · 04:40 PM

BBS RS rebuild

According to documentation, my 911 was bought from the dealer w/ these BBS RS and some Michelin (or Pirelli, not sure) summer tires. Most people love them on the black 911, except for most other 911 owners, who just tell me to go get date-matched Fuchs. But as mentioned above, the 16x8s weren't filling the guards and couldn't take a 245/45/16 (in my opinion), and I never liked the "drop" lips of the front 16x7. I debated going for 17" step-up sizes, but in the end I prefer the smaller bore of the 16s.

The problem with widening the 16x8 rears is that my current 2" lips are the largest "slant" lips available in 16". As anyone with 16x9" ET15 BBS RS will know, the 2.5" 16" lips are stepped; this just won't do for me. Unable to find an aftermarket 2.5" or larger slant lip, I decided I would just widen the barrels to make a 9" wheel, and fill out the outboard side with a spacer.

I also had plans of a 16x8 front with a mid-30s offset, which could be achieved with wider barrels (using my existing faces); but then I realized an extra 0.5" wide lip up front was a true slant, rather than the sunken-in "drop" lip. And then I found such a good deal on 4x RE-11s in 205/55/16, that I decided to keep my front barrels and just re-lip them, for a 16x7.5 (for now).

Big thanks are due to member floridabmx, from whom I never ended up buying barrels, but who was very helpful corroborating my offset and size maths.

These are the patients, awaiting cleaning and break-down. The lighting is terrible here, the centers are very nice, original satin gold, not as washed out as they appear:

And the new parts:

The barrels are 6.5" (used), the lips are 1.5" (new from VRWheels; I'll have to grey scotchbrite the polish down); and that's $250+ of hardware from SRR.

Including spacers, the final specs will be 16x7.5 ET17 front and 16x9 ET8 rear (205 fr 245 r RE-11s, which I have 4 of each due to..because). I may actually go with up to a 20mm rear spacer for a final offset of ET3, but we'll see. I'll post an update when I have one.

I just need to go buy the correct 12-point socket for the hardware and I'll get to work! Thanks for reading this self-indulgent drivel; as the M5 takes up less of my time and money, this thread will surely get more interesting.

impactbumper · 04-29-2016, 05:15 PM

Nice thread, subed ! Rear offset is bold, love it! 245s are borderline without rubbing. Depends on the height!

One of the reasons i went with the adj spring plates was the simple fact that i hate my ever changing wheel preferences and ride height changes a lot! I will read your e34 thread

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jac1976 · 04-29-2016, 08:11 PM

So people in Colorado drink Texas beer?

Bleedsblue · 04-29-2016, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by impactbumper

Nice thread, subed ! Rear offset is bold, love it! 245s are borderline without rubbing. Depends on the height!

One of the reasons i went with the adj spring plates was the simple fact that i hate my ever changing wheel preferences and ride height changes a lot! I will read your e34 thread

I can't get enough of the fat-tired look on these cars, and they can fit the tire so far out at low ride heights without rubbing! Even on stock TBs, it's awesome--I guess it's a function of the fender curvature. I don't understand how the 17x9s and 255s don't rub as is.

Sometime I will embark on a Craig D style rebuild (he's local and can save me if/when I go off course) and will def go with adj spring plates. I re-indexed a few times each side on jack stands on my back aaaaaand done with that forever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jac1976

So people in Colorado drink Texas beer?

Texas is pretty far behind Colorado (and CA, and OR) in the craft beer scene, but I have some family down there that send me the best they find (in exchange for the typical CO craft stuff). That Rodeo Clown was no joke.

This thread is open season on the topic of beer, btw. Yes, I have a separate beer fridge for my revolving collection/aging fine bottles

deputydog95 · 04-30-2016, 02:59 AM

Are you going to roll the front fenders? I just grabbed a set of these. Fronts are 16x7 et 23 and rears are 16x8 et 11. Will be staying G with 205/225. Was told front is iffy and may have to roll. Your setup seems way more aggressive.

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Bleedsblue · 04-30-2016, 09:27 AM

Deputy, those are the exact original specs for my RS. My front fenders were already rolled flat when I bought the car. Plus I'm running near -2 camber up front. There is precedent for me to assume the setup will fit (particularly with a narrow 205 front tire), since I did have a 17x7.5 ET23 up front with a fat 225/45/17, and no rubbage.

If I hadn't found such a good deal on the 205 RE-11s I would be putting a 225 up front, though for the street I can't deny a 205 is lighter and more easily driven.

deputydog95 · 04-30-2016, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleedsblue

Deputy, those are the exact original specs for my RS. My front fenders were already rolled flat when I bought the car. Plus I'm running near -2 camber up front. There is precedent for me to assume the setup will fit (particularly with a narrow 205 front tire), since I did have a 17x7.5 ET23 up front with a fat 225/45/17, and no rubbage.

If I hadn't found such a good deal on the 205 RE-11s I would be putting a 225 up front, though for the street I can't deny a 205 is lighter and more easily driven.

Did you find that it was necessary for the fenders to have been rolled with your original specs? Or would it have cleared regardless. I know that's a tough question.

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deputydog95 · 04-30-2016, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleedsblue

Deputy, those are the exact original specs for my RS. My front fenders were already rolled flat when I bought the car. Plus I'm running near -2 camber up front. There is precedent for me to assume the setup will fit (particularly with a narrow 205 front tire), since I did have a 17x7.5 ET23 up front with a fat 225/45/17, and no rubbage.

If I hadn't found such a good deal on the 205 RE-11s I would be putting a 225 up front, though for the street I can't deny a 205 is lighter and more easily driven.

Now that I'm thinking about it... On a 7.5 inch wheel that is like the equivalent of a et 17 on the 7 inch wheel. And with a 225 no less. Must have been snug.

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livetopedal · livetopedal's Garage

Holy Heads! That's the look I'm after, mean and gorgeous! In GP white of course.

What size tires on those 16s and 17s?

Bleedsblue · 04-30-2016, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deputydog95

Did you find that it was necessary for the fenders to have been rolled with your original specs? Or would it have cleared regardless. I know that's a tough question.

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I'm pretty sure I would have needed a roll with my previous lack of camber, and especially with the round shoulders of the Continental DW tires I had, and especially especially because they were stock diameter. A 205/50/16 would be a safer fit (or even a 225/45/16, which I did run all around at one point).

Oh and then of course your ride height plays a big part, too. What is yours?

Quote:

Originally Posted by deputydog95

Now that I'm thinking about it... On a 7.5 inch wheel that is like the equivalent of a et 17 on the 7 inch wheel. And with a 225 no less. Must have been snug.

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It was snug for sure, though there was plenty of room inboard for a better-offset wheel.

The easiest way for me to think of the future 16x7.5" ET17 RS I'm building is that it is basically the front-spacing equivalent of the 951 8" Fuchs. If I added 0.5" to the barrel (like I am to the lip), I'd have roughly a 16x8 ET23, just like the 951 Fuchs. As I mentioned earlier, a much easier 8" fit up front would be to add 1" to the barrel and put a small spacer, which would get the ET up to 30+ for a perfect 8" front wheel. But, aesthetics

These are also my "street wheels," and I just couldn't justify 225s when I got such a steal on the 205s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by livetopedal

Holy Heads! That's the look I'm after, mean and gorgeous! In GP white of course.

What size tires on those 16s and 17s?

Hey, thank you for the compliment! Funny enough, the rear has already come up a tiny bit since that picture, due to the Sparco.

I run 225/45/16 and 255/40/17 on that set-up. I have yet to auto-x this set-up or anything though, so I can't comment on balance.

No going back now...
I finished up some garage projects and was able to start tear-down of the RS. It's really not too bad.

I started with an 8, and one bolt in I took a deep breath and just went for it. Baxter (shiba/beagle) was not impressed.

The wheel lip is just really dirty, btw; once cleaned, it's in great shape. But disassembling the wheels was a mess, so I'm glad I left 'em dirty. Only about 1/5th of the bolts gave me trouble, and it was nothing a breaker bar + reducer to fit the 8mm socket couldn't handle. I'm glad I got new hardware, because these bolts do have damage (some of it just caused by yours truly), discoloration, and also appear to be original.

I just need to break this one apart and then I'll probably rebuild it, versus breaking them all apart at once. It should be less tedious rebuilding each wheel one at a time, I think. 34 bolts add up, and the last thing I'm interested in after breaking 34 loose is another 34.

The Sparco feels sooooo good, but so far I've only been able to make vroom vroom noises sitting in it with a helmet on to test the new headroom (snow storm here over the weekend). I'm 6' but have my grandpa's traditional Italian build (long torso & arms, stubby legs), so I had to open the sunroof at auto-x and could only look left with my eyes, unable to turn my head... So no pictures of that installed still. I'm more eager to drive the car than you are to see pictures, though, so calm down

Bleedsblue · 09:24 AM

Break it down!

All one needs to break these wheels apart (I'm 95% sure mine have never been split) is a hard surface to set the wheel on (+ towel, cardboard, anything to protect the rim), two pieces of 2x4, and a solid hammer. And when hammering in an enclosed space, ear plugs/head phones, because my already bad ears were ringing...

Here is the old 5.5" barrel (left, I'd hope obviously) and the new 6.5" barrel side by side:

Here's how you retain a 2" slant lip, while achieving the front space of a 2.5" lip. Probably the most form > function decision I've ever made modifying a car:

I prefer new hardware over old hardware any day, and furthermore didn't want to deal with soaking and shining up those old crappers:

Cleaning the four mating faces (one barrel, two waffle, one lip) was messy but cake:

I installed five bolts to start, to hold everything in place:

A dab of threadlocker on each, torqued to 25 ft lbs in a star pattern (and marking off each bolt once torqued with sharpy). I torqued the nut (not visible, and six point) instead of the shiny bolt head:

And there you have it, my first wheel done: 16x9 ET 23

Bleedsblue · 05-02-2016, 09:23 AM

I finished a 7.5 front last night:

I was wondering how easily I could get the new lip from VRwheels to match the original rear lips, and about 2 minutes (srsly) with a grey Scotchbrite pad got me pretty close (especially in natural lighting, which this is not):

When the old lip is clean, it's a pretty close match. I should have cleaned the 7 before the picture, my bad. That picture shows off the non-drop lip of the 7.5, which was the entire reason for rebuilding the fronts. Much better looking than the drop lip 7 IMHO.

impactbumper · 05-02-2016, 09:31 AM

looking good

Bleedsblue · 05-02-2016, 10:49 AM

I forgot this picture of a new 1.5" front lip from VRwheels and the original 2" rear lip--you can see how the new one is mirror-polished, and why I had to scotch-brite it to match the rear lips. I can't stand RS mirror-polished. See above for the post-scotch-brite comparo.

TheSt|G · 05-02-2016, 11:40 AM

Brushed is so much better than the mirrored finish. Nice work!

deputydog95 · 05-02-2016, 05:56 PM

Been fun watching this project.

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impactbumper · 05-02-2016, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Brushed is so much better than the mirrored finish. Nice work!

I don't know. It all depends on the theme, color of the center and hardware etc... I can go either way.

deputydog95 · 05-02-2016, 06:02 PM

What color lug bolts do you use with a gold wheel?

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