Suspension refresh.

[71T Targa]

Have I forgotten anything for a fairly complete suspension refresh?
Anything I should change or add?

1) A-arm Bushing Kit (4 total), 911 and 911 Turbo (1968-89)
2) Front Sway Bar Drop Link Bushings (stock bar), set of 4, 911/911 Turbo (1965-73), 914 All
3) Neatrix Rear Spring Plate Bushing Kit (1 kit per vehicle, comes with tool), 911/911 Turbo (1969-89)
4) 911 Rear Trailing Arm Bushing Kit (4 total)
5) Rear Sway Bar Drop Link Bushing, 4 req for 914, 2 req for 911, each
6) 911 Turbo Tie Rod Kit 911/912/912E (1969-89), 914 All
7) Front Pair Bilsteins, 911/912 (Oct 1968-3/85), 914 All
8) Rear Pair Bilsteins, 911/912 (1965-72)


What will be the hardest part of this job?

[dickster]

t/bars?

hardest part? getting started

[KTL]

New Stuff To Strongly Consider:

-Torsion bars are certainly a good idea. They really make the car feel more taut and connected to the road. Worth every penny.

-As long as you're doing everything, don't leave out the A-arm ball joints.

-You could also replace the front upper strut mount with OEM units or install monoball cartridges.

-Don't leave out the sway bar bushings. Be they rubber or poly, new ones will tighten up the feel of the car.

-You'll most likely need two new metal retaining brackets for the rear outer spring plate bushings. Mine were seriously rusted with only 60K mi.

-Relubing or rebuilding the steering rack is also a good idea. That'll ensure you get good feedback to your hands from your new suspension. Don't forget to oil the u-joints for the steering system too. Chuck Moreland can attest to this one. Really smooths out the steering if they're a little dry and binding.

Hard parts?

-Removing the ring nut on the ball joints has been mentioned alot. Pipe wrench or cutting wheel is a good solution.

-Separating the strut from the ball joint is tough sometimes. The threaded pin (unless you have Bilstein struts) gets stubborn. Coat it with antiseize when you put it back together.

-Those rubber bushings on the rear spring plates are sorta time consuming to remove. A torch, utility knife (with some spare SHARP blades) and a wire wheel on your drill are your friends for this job.

Hardest part? Resisting the anal urge to clean and paint everything in sight. Resistance was futile. The car won that battle..........

Good luck.

[dhaines]

KTL nailed it pretty good. Only thing I see missing is the bushings for the sway bars themselves. I see you have the drop link kit. I agree, go ahead and do the ball joints as long as you are at it. I am doing the same rebuild right now to my front end. I had the a-arms and cross member powder coated as long as they are off. Looks really nice.

[MBAtarga]

What about the Bump Steer Kit? Consider it if you're lowering the car with this work.

The hardest part? Getting the car height re-adjusted after doing all of that work you're considering. I just finished the Turbo Tie Rod, Bump Steer Kit, Ft/Rr Shock and Spring Plate Bushing replacement myself. Alignment/corner balance planned for later next week.

[71T Targa]

I wasn’t really planning on going with new t-bars at this point, unless there is a real reason to? Or if someone had a set of 21/26’s that I couldn’t refuse…

I’ll add the sway bar bushings.

What is involved in replacing the A-arm ball joints? Is it just the ball joint? (Ball Joint, 911/912 (1969-71), each) Or is it more involved then that? Where is the ball joint anyway? Between the A-arm and the bottom of the strut assembly?
I’m not going to lower the car, so I shouldn’t need the bump-steer kit.

Anything else?

[bob tilton]

i "refreshed" my ENTIRE susp awhile back and the car was on jackstands for weeks. definitetly replace the ball joints. unfortunately 65-68 balljoints are way more expensive than 69+. make sure you shave the a-arm bushings and springplate bushings to fit. they should just glide on without much force. heat the orig a-arm bushings with flame for 2-3 minutes and they will actually launch from the arms. did one arm in 2 hours trying varoius methods until i read chuck morelands past advice about flame - 10 minutes. trailing arm bushings were the most difficult part for me. ck that the torsion bars are not rusted or pitted. if so, used replacements are about $50 for the pair if not free. replaced the rears with 24s from an SC. took the advice of my wrench and drilled drain holes in the rear torsion tube housing. you might need some por15 at the a-arm attachment points. get it aligned and corner balanced afterwards. you will notice a huge difference. i did the entire project at one time so i can't say which part was the most notable difference. good luck.
bob
68L
ps i couldn't resist the urge to paint.

[RickM]

I have to say that Kevin (KTL) has one of the cleanest (Read nicest) Carreras I've ever seen...at least in pics.

[KTL]

Thanks Rick.

You're right about the last part (....in pics). Actually the paint on my car is pretty poor. The nose and hood have a good case of road rash and the whole finish altogether was not that well maintained. Be that as it may, at least there's no rust.

But, it's probably better that the car is not-so-pristine. Otherwise i'd be more hesitant to drive and not enjoy it enough.

Some really nice red ones that come to mind are 89911 and and SoCal911SC

Look at the underside of Brian's....... wow.

Super clean

[Jdub]

Yes, do go for the fresh T-bars. It is a "while you are there" item and after this many years...

Do not forget to pull and grease your axles. A brace across the front upper struts is sometimes recommended, but not crucial.

I would go with fresh wheel bearings at this point as well should you not have any records on the old ones. This only because you are going to have the strut and hub out anyway.

John

[BGCarrera32]

Make sure that if you are ordering poly A-arm bushings from Pelican that you specify "hard" or "soft". The part numbers are the same from the manufactuer, but you could end up with 2 different types of bushings from Pelican (they fail to note this on the website). The hard ones will slip right on to your a-arms, but the soft ones (more compliant) will most likely need custom lathe work (most time consuming part of the job) because they fit overly tight. Also, get some really thick and sticky vacuum grease for your bushings or order the jar of suspension prelube from Pelican - the little 1 oz squeeze tubes they sell aren't enough to do much of anything. I'd run with factory upper trailing arm bushings in the back- rumor has it the poly ones don't provide enough freedom of movement for a good alignment setting.

I am refreshing my 84 Carrera suspension and have done most of what you will be doing. I live in Minneapolis. If you would like to contact me by phone with any questions, e-mail me off line and I'll provide a number.

brian.gale@softhome.net

>>I have to say that Kevin (KTL) has one of the cleanest (Read nicest) Carreras I've ever seen...at least in pics.

Ditto....

[bob tilton]

oh yeah - lube. probably get flamed for this ...another secret is to use lube made for swimming pool equipment. this was also advice from a p wrench veteran. i used it on poly a-arm, rear sway bar, adj sway away rear springplates with no noise in just little more than a year.
bob

[71T Targa]

Thanks to all for the input. I plan to order next week (assuming no tax surprises) and will start to pull things apart after that. I want to be on the road by spring, (May??? )

Anyone have any used SC T-Bars they want to let go cheap?

How about a little more info on replacing the A-Arm ball joints?

Brian, I'll send you an e-mail. Thank you.

[KTL]

Joel,

The ball joints are really not a big deal. It's just that sometimes the parts get stuck together.

The connection at the strut is kinda sticky, but you can get them apart if you use the right size separating fork.

The connection at the a-arm is troublesome because the slotted ring nut is tightened to 184 ft-lb. Plus it gets stuck because of time and rust/road crud. Soak them with PB Blaster penetrating lube a few times and a day ahead of time?

Some ways to get them off is either:

A. Put the arm in a vise and use a big 'ol chisel and baby sledge hammer to get that nut moving. Can also try a pipe wrench with a length of pipe for more leverage.

B. Leave the arm on the car and use the socket tool on a breaker bar w/ length of pipe. Lightly support the socket with a floor jack to keep in on the nut.

C. Use an impact wrench with the socket and semi-ruin your socket in the process (my stupid choice)

[Randy Webb]

Why do the ball joints have to be done? I thought they lasted forever?

Also thought they never needed maintenance -- only would be replaced if there was a front end crash.

Not true?

[BGCarrera32]

Ball joints (especially because you can't adjust them) have an inherent amount wear over time. The constant road shock and motion through the control arm could easily induce a fair amount play after a number of miles (which might not feel like a lot if you were to check it by hand). A guess might be 75k-100k miles of average driving and they should probably be done.

As you have also read, the retaining nuts can be difficult to remove. Actually they are really quite easy to remove if you don't mind destroying the nut. Personally after using a chisel and a giant pipe wrench I would be leery of reusing the nut. Just plan to fork over about $30 for the 2 nuts and $50 or so for the ball joint socket so you can retorque the nut correctly.

Although expensive, my stance is that if you ever plan to track a car or do a DE (or for piece of mind for that matter) do you really want 20+ year old critical parts on a car you will do spirited driving in?

-BG

[KTL]

Oops.

Forgot to mention the easiest solution for removing the ball joint nut.

Cut the nut open with a reinforced cutoff wheel.

[71T Targa]

OK, I’ll add ball joints to the list. So I’ll need the two ball joints (of course), two new nuts , and the ball joint socket. Anything else?

I’m sure no-one else has ever had this problem, but what started out as replacing the rear spring plate bushings and grown quite a bit… As long as I’m in there…

[Rick Lee]

This brings a question to mind. I just put in 29mm rear torsion bars, Sway Away spring plates and Neatrix bushings, took the car to the shop for corner balancing and alignment and now have decided to have them do front torsion bars and bushings before the corner balancing. While they're doing that, is ball joint replacement a total cinch that I should just go ahead and have them do? I have 89k miles on her and so far she feels fine. But "while they're in there"...

[BGCarrera32]

To do the front a-arm bushings, you will need to remove the a-arm from the car, which means seperating the ball joint from the strut bottom anyway. I suppose you *could* replace bushings without seperating the strut away from the a-arm but you'd have to enjoy wasting time. Having the a-arm out is also a good time to clean off any road grime and inspect the welds, etc. The hardest part about ball joints is running into the often stuck castellated nut that holds it on.

If decide to replace the torsion bars in front only, you don't need to remove the a-arm or do the ball joints. You could have it aligned assuming the ball joints are tight, and replace them later without realignment. (The castor / camber is adjusted at the strut plate up top under the hood). Keep in mind however, that older and looser components, worn ones, etc. make alignment trickier and less likely to hold a setting.

BTW, I am not an expert, but based on doing this stuff myself, the comments I make are my "straight scoop". If you have time, do your own t-bars, bushings, and ball joints up front and save the dough. Replacing and dialing in torsion bars is a lot easier and safer IMO than doing coil springs. Nothing to be afraid of in doing this stuff yourself (just set aside a week or two). Follow it up with a good alignment...

-BG