I had Sanders hollow 22/29s in my other 3.2. I would say with the car at stock weight it's a upgraded street setup that you can take to the track on occasion, but not for serious track use. For street use the car still rides nicely with Bilstein Sports. For track use combined with 22mm adjustable front and rear sway bars the car still has a lot of lean in turns at the limit with street tires. With the car lightened by 300-400 lbs, then it can feel stiff on the road. For real track use, you'd want at minimum to consider something like 23/31, or preferably much stiffer.

Increase the spring rate beyond a certain threshold and the chassis may flex and become a part of the overall spring rate - not recommended. A pre-964 cab, unless heavily fortified, is no match for a coupe that isn't all that rigid anyway.

Here's a lengthy discussion on chassis reinforcement:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/259557-structural-reinforcement.html

Sherwood

LOL....You and I have obviously never been up a canyon together. At the risk of offending my local Asian gang, my lowly cab trounces the 964, 993, 996 cars I hang out with. One 964 guy commented Saturday that his car is 700#'s heavier than mine. My car may flex like James Dean's 550, but it makes up for it in other ways. And if I'm not mistaken the later cabs like mine have added stiffeners in the footwells.

Never underestimate the driver in the overall equation.

Imagine how fast you'd go in a non wet noodle.

LOL....Thank you...I needed that.

Just sliding out from under my car. Eibach sway bar is in. Love the bar,

Other than that, I'm sure I'll love it. :D

Oh, and the Eibach was one pound heavier than the stock bar....so my car now weighs in at 2,541#'s...

thanks!

OK, I'm gonna go cool off and likely regret the hit piece I just posted. For the price I have zero reason to complain. It would seem that when compared to the bars that are $675 each, Eibach could offer machined brackets at $100/set and still be hundreds under the price of the competition.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508345741.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508345741.jpg

I won a shirt at Eibachtoberfest.....an awesome Bleu one. I just need to take a deep breath and edit out my frustrations.

I found the calculator at the Sway Away web site is helpful when you get around to figuring what spring rate your sway bars will add to each end of the car.

Hello Douglas

We will add a billet aluminum bracket to the rear. I will send you a PM and we can set up an appointment to mount it on your car.

Sorry about the frustration

Christian at Eibach

Hey, sorry I blew off a bit of steam that should have been kept to myself. The OE bracket was also stamped steel so I should just be OK with it.....but it seems like the perfect place to showcase something better. This isn't a Skunk2 car, it's a Porsche.:p.....and you could easily raise your price point and still be well under the competition.

Well I am now a VERY HAPPY customer.

Prior to me buying my car 10 years ago the passenger side sway bar mount had been replaced with a new stamped factory replacement part. In fact, the paper part no tag was still on it. It was cheap and thin and only had small bolts welded to it. It was due to fail and did when I went to tighten down the new bushing from Energy Suspension, the bushing included in the Eibach kit, I stripped the threads.

At some point, 7 or 8 years ago my original driver's side mount had ripped off so I replaced it with a WEVO I got from Rennsport Systems. Well, now both sides of the car have the same WEVO mounting points. I had the car level and used the same dial indicator used to set spring plate angle to duplicate the left side angle on the new right side. The frame is rounded and has no firm placement location so getting them identical is up to you.

Ok, so mid-week I got the bar on....adjustable drop links made it even easier.

Yesterday I texted a local buddy at 5:30 AM and found my way to the Corona C&C at Saleen Mustang. Car was flawless all the way there. Seemed a bit harsh but that was tire pressure. Lowered the pressure to 2.5 bars (35 psi) and it was perfect. Using the closest holes on the bar the car is flat. Absolutely no roll what so ever. Ended up going to Lake Elsinore with some PCA guys then home for a bit. Later headed up Baldy road several times. Slight push, just enough. Car is better than expected. No tram-lining, no increase in input needed, just a nice firm resistance to rolling in the turns. Non-existent going down the road then a very noticable difference when pushed hard in the turns. I love it.

Christian at Eibach has invited me to come in later this week to test out some billet bushing brackets. Can't wait. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1509295646.jpg

Nice work, your experience aligns perfectly with mine with 23/22 FF/RR setup - no downsides.

This may be the excuse I was looking for to swap out my 21MM front T-bars in favor of 22MM.

Anybody want some 21MM Sway a Way fronts w/5k miles at 60% off?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1509300603.jpg

Great to hear. We will have the aluminum bracket in a week. There will also be a billet aluminum bracket for the front bar.

We are gone to SEMA the next few days. Stop by at our booth, if any of you are there and have questions about the kits. Ask for Ryan or myself.'

Christian

Doug, I would love your front 21mm torsion bars. I'm upgrading the Targa to 21F/27R at Steve Weiner's suggestion. I already have a set of rears that I bought from Randy Webb on Rennlist.

I'll send you a PM.

Mark

Where can we purchase these new Eibach anti-roll bars from?

thanks

Yes, curious about these as well. Didn’t see them on the website.

Hey Fellas,

Until they are up on our web site free free to shoot me a line with questions or if you'd like to order.

rhoegner@eibach.com

- The 964 bars are in stock and can ship immediately.
- The G body bars are complete, but the hardware is about 4 weeks out.

Email sent.

FYI this is quite a handy guide.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510395079.JPG

Hi Ryan, please can you confirm what the front and rear sizes are for the new kit? Thanks SmileWavy

Local Asian gang members did a group buy for their 964's. I think 7 of them all together. We are all going to the Porsche Experience in the morning.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510397431.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510397431.jpg

Mark, the 22mm front T-bars are in and match my rear perfectly. I had no idea what a well balanced car could do until I hit Baldy Road tonight. OMG what a dream. Pushed it well past my comfort zone without issue. Car will not roll or slide. Simply awesome.

......but I already knocked the zerk off the passenger side twice over speed bumps.

See....fronts are in. LOL.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510397431.jpg

Zerks don't have a prayer

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510398248.jpg

The Eibach G-body bars are in stock and our host should be stocking them shortly.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519141352.jpg

Ryan,

Can you please post a picture how the front bar is installed and specifically how you realized the adjustment piece?

thanks

The bar has two holes for adjustment and connects via this end link (Aurora hardware).

(I see the typo too)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519151697.jpg

Sway Bar Upgrade
 

Thanks , appreciate the quick reply!

New Eibach Sway Bars
 

FedEx delivered my Eibach sway bar kit yesterday. (Thanks, Ryan H!) The part number for the kit that includes front and rear sway bars plus installation hardware is E40-72-015-01-11.

The rear bar is hollow and black powder coated with 3 adjustment holes at each end. New stiff bushings (hard rubber, I think) with interior grease channels are provided with machined, black anodized billet aluminum brackets. No new drop links are provided, so we must use our old ones (and hence no ability to eliminate preload on the rear bar, if any). The billet brackets are drilled and tapped for the provided zerk fittings.

The solid front bar (also black powder coated) is designed to use the original end loops on the control arms with nicely made, adjustable endlinks connected to a split bushing that fits into the end loops. The end links have spherical bearings at both ends. There are two hole positions in the sway bar.

So there is a total of 6 combinations of font/back stiffness settings, with preload adjustability at the front. The bushings are all firm material, and plenty of silicone(?) grease is provided for the initial install.

The installation instructions are a bit cryptic and the black/white photography is printed quite dark - kind of reminds me of my old Haynes manual. Fortunately, there is a very clear diagram of the end links for the the front sway bar, which is the only part that could otherwise be confusing. I have also provided a couple of photos of the end links below.

I'll post installation photos when I mount these babies, hopefully this weekend

Unboxing
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519365427.jpg

Contents of kit
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519365427.jpg

Rear bar
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519365427.jpg

Rear bushing with anodized billet bracket. (I figure it would take a couple of days to machine a bracket like this by hand.)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519365427.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519365427.jpg

Three hole adjustment (rear bar)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519366418.jpg

Front bar (solid)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519365427.jpg

Front end links
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519366418.jpg

The front end links
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519365427.jpg

Front bracket (on crossbar) and mid-bar bushings
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519365427.jpg

Zeusdog

Eibach sway bar installation, Part 1
 

I got started on installation of the Eibach sway bar kit today. For no particular reason, I started with the front.

1) The day before, I sprayed the bolts holding the belly pan with PB Blaster and shot some silicone spray into the bushings at the ends of the sway bar.

2) Raise front of car, support on jack stands. Remove the belly pan under the front crossmember. (4 bolts, use 11 mm socket.)

3) Remove the 2 remaining bolts holding the thick steel strut and middle bushings of the old sway bar. (11 mm socket.) These are visible after the belly pan is removed.

4) The old sway bar is now only held in place by the bushings at the ends of the bar (on the control arms). Due to the geometry of the bushings and OE sway bar, the bar resists removal. I ended up prying gently but firmly with a crow bar and some wood block spacers. The bar eventually popped out at the left end. With one end free, the other end essentially fell out.

5) Remove the old sway bar bushings from the end loops on the control arms. I found it was easiest to push these out from the front side using a large screwdriver. Push a bit of the bushing in near where it is split, then keep working around the outside until the bushing pops out. Clean the inside of the bushing end loop.

6) Apply the supplied grease to the inside of the new middle bushings and to the sway bar, then slip them onto the bar just outboard of the collars.

7) Using the supplied washers and the original bolt and lockwasher, secure one end of the new bushing brackets over the new bushings to the thick steel strut.

----------------------------------------

A little persuasion with a crowbar...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519369749.jpg

And the old bar is out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519369749.jpg

From the FRONT side of of the control arm:

Starting at the split in the bushing, use a large screwdriver to push the bushing into the end loop.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519369749.jpg


Working around the bushing, pushing it into the end loop...bit by bit.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519369749.jpg

And the bushing pops out.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519369626.jpg

Old and new front sway bars. Middle bushings with brackets came out with the sway bar. The heavy metal brackets and bolts will be re-used. The Eibach kit includes replacement U-brackets.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519368942.jpg

New front sway bar (solid) is 24 mm.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519368942.jpg

Applying grease to the new bushing using the Porsche applicator tool.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519368942.jpg

Next step: Install the new front sway bar. stay tuned...

Zeusdog

Hopefully not too late, but make sure you fit your bushings. When putting a front bar on my car, the car suddenly got very pushy, ride went downhill, and I lost a lot of braking performance. The (poly) bushings were pinching the bar so tight it wouldn't rotate, essentially making it work like a lever spring rigidly attached to the chassis.

30 seconds with a belt sander and I regained my front grip. HUGE difference. Since then I do this on every bar I install, favoring slightly loose over slightly tight. I also put a wrap of teflon pipe tape over the bar where it rides in the bushing.

My $.02, ymmv, and all that jazz.

Before:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-65uphf99Uh...0/IMAG1135.jpg

After:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jto3bJuDLQ...0/IMAG1136.jpg

As Doug has experienced, and I'm sure others will as well, perhaps it would be prudent to manufacture the bushing bracket with the zerk fitting around closer to the rear where it would be less likely to be snagged and sheared off.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519365427.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510398248.jpg[/QUOTE]

Driven - Thanks for the tip on fitting the bushings. I'll probably be installing the front bar today.

+1 to Canada Kev's suggestion. I was thinking the same. The rear bushings could be user modified, but drilling and tapping a new hole for the zerks would expose un-anodized aluminum, creating a potential target for corrosion. Not so much of a concern here in California, but could be in other climates.

Front Eibach Sway Bar Installation - Continued.
 

Continuing from post #69 - installation of the front Eibach front sway bar...

8) Slide the greased bushing onto the sway bar.

9) Assemble the the u-brackets and loosely thread the front bolt to the thick mounting bars so that the bushings and u-bracket stay assembled.

10) Attach the two mounting bars (that the u-brackets and bushings with the now-captive sway bar are attached to) the car. The two bolts that are welded to the mounting bars drop into holes in the aluminum crossmember of front suspension. Attach the back holes in the mounting bars and the u-brackets using the cap screws removed earlier. (Cap screws require 8 mm hex wrench). Leave all fasteners loose.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519536269.jpg


11) Grease the split bushings and install them into the end loops on the control arms.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519536269.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519536269.jpg


12) Slide the crush bushing through the holes in the split bushings.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519536269.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519536269.jpg


13) Adjust the end links so that they are of approximately equal length. Eibach cautions not to lengthen beyond 80 mm from eye to eye. (This corresponds to about 8 threads showing.) I set them initially with about 4-5 threads showing, which makes the eye-to-eye distance about 73 mm, and leaves room to adjust in either direction if needed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519536269.jpg


14) Slide a fender washer onto the longer of the bolts supplied with the Eibach kit, then slide the bolt through the crush bushing (from the front side, with the threads extending rearward). Then slide on another fender washer, a spacer bushing, the eye of the end link assembly, another spacer bushing, washer and nylock nut. Put a couple of turns on the assembly with 17 mm wrenches. Don't tighten completely yet.

15) Assemble the supplied large cap screw through one of the holes at the end of the sway bar. Slip on a spacer bushing, other eye of the end link, another spacer bushing, washer and 17 mm nylock nut. You may need to muscle the sway bar around a bit to get the bolt through the hole.

Note: The supplied instructions reverse the order of 14 and 15, but I found it difficult to get the lower eye lined up with the bolt. It was much easier to mount the lower end first, then fit the upper end to the bolt on the sway bar end. Finally, torque all the fasteners.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519536269.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519536269.jpg


16) Once both ends of each end link are attached, torque the fasteners on both ends of the end links using 8 mm hex wrench, 17 mm socket and 17 mm box wrench.

17) Replace the belly pan under the cross member. (11 mm bolts and 17 mm nuts)

I had planned to use the softer setting of the front sway bar, but found that the angle of the end link would be such that it would hit the end loop on the control arm with the suspension at full droop (when the sway bar end extends farther forward than at normal ride height). I worried that this could bend or fatigue the end links if the front end was jacked up too many times. In the photo below (taken from the front side of the control arm) you can see that the end link is forward of the end loop on the control arm. But the lower end of the end link mounts to the back side of the bolt through the end loop. That would be difficult.

This probably would not be an issue for cars with stiffer T-bars, because the suspension would not droop as far. For this reason, I ended up using the firmer setting. I may need to revisit this and see if I can adjust things to eliminate the issue.

Update: With the car sitting on the ground at normal ride height, I have tried to move the end links to the softer (forward) holes on the front sway bar. At least with my car, it does not seem to be possible. With the lower end of the link in place, the middle of the end link hits the fender washer on the half-bushing before the upper eye can be moved far enough forward to bolt into the softer setting on the front sway bar. I was hoping to try that setting in hopes of reducing understeer a bit more.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519536269.jpg

The rear sway bar goes on tomorrow. It should be a simple replacement of the OE bar and brackets.

Zeusdog

Update for the rear install? Great writeup. I have been really tempted to purchase these bars.

Don't forget to actually use those drop links for their intended purpose-- dialing out pre-load.

Of course ideal is with the car in "as driven, raced and/or ax'd" configuration, with (nominal) driver's weight in the seat.

The presumption being that the corner balance in the car is based on a target.

Eibach F&R sway bars, first drive
 

Yep, I'll do that once I get other suspension parts the way I want them. My car seems to sit and handle pretty symmetrically, but a corner balance (when I get to that point) will tell for sure.

On my first test drive of about 50 miles including a favorite stretch of 2nd/3rd gear twisties, the Eibach sway bars made an impressive difference. Some of the test ride included medium-rough sections of road but nothing severely rough. At least in these conditions, the ride seemed no rougher than with the stock bars.

Besides dramatically reducing body roll, there is a feel that stiffer sway bars impart to a car that is difficult to describe. More "solid," less independence of the suspension, much quicker transition into turns and between left and right turns.

I understand that the sway bars are only one piece of the puzzle, and that the suspension all works together. That said, the Eibach kit seems to work quite well on a stock SC.

Eibach Rear Sway Bar Install
 

Hi, Tim.

I didn't post a writeup for the rear install because it is very straightforward and only differs from replacement of the stock sway bar in that

• The OE u-brackets are replaced with the Eibach black anodized billet units pictured in my earlier post.
• You can select which of the three adjustment holes in the sway bar to connect the OE drop links into.

I'll try to get under the car and take a few photos of the installed sway bar some time in the next few days.

Elevate both sides of the car a few inches and set jack stands under the torsion bar covers. Just enough to reach under; all the hardware is pretty close.

The only part that was a bit tricky was getting the u-bracket holes to line up with the holes in the chassis. It was easy to get the first bolt in each u-bracket, but the other slot in the u-bracket always seemed to be too far back to to get a bolt through it and into the chassis hole. (This probably would not be an issue if the car is on a lift.)
What I ended up doing was leaving the first bolt loose, lowering the car a bit at a time until the holes lined up. (As the car lowers, the brackets are pushed forward due to the changing geometry. Of course, I reset the jack stands before wrenching on anything.)

As in the case of the front install, I waited until all fasteners were in place before tightening all of them. No torque specs were provided. If anyone knows the proper torque for the drop link bolts or the u-bracket bolts, I would appreciate the info.

Using a floor jack, a jack pad and jack stands, the job took about an hour. If the car was on a lift, it would have been about 20 minutes. Eibach estimates that F&R sway bars could be installed in an hour with the car on a lift.

If you decide to buy the Eibach bars, call or email Ryan H. (His contact info is earlier in this thread.) He'll make sure you get the right kit.

Thanks for the write up Zuesdog. Very Helpful. Probably going to order a set soon.

Really nice write up! One of the many reasons Pelican is still such a great resource SmileWavy

Agreed, great write-up, Z. Please post a photo, if you can, of the rear black billet brackets installed, especially showing the grease fitting, and how low it hangs (as Doug and Kevin mention). I would think, however, that $1.50, 90- or 45-degree bend fitting would help most issues though. Plus, I don't think my car sits as low as the one you show, Doug...