What is the correct ET for 16" Fuchs with turbo flares ?

[PorscheRally]

Dear Friends,
Can you please advice the correct ET with 7&8 / 16" wheels with or without spacers ?
I am trying to correct the situation which has 50 mm front and 80 mm rear spacers ( existing set up ) to fill the turbo look fenders.
I am not sure about the 80 mm rear spacers but in my opinion 50 mm front spacers are absolutely no-go.
Regards

[Edoyle]

https://members.rennlist.com/911pcars/WheelWts.html

If you have 911 trailing arms in the rear you will be stuck with a large spacer no matter what 16" wheels you run.

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by Edoyle

https://members.rennlist.com/911pcars/WheelWts.html

If you have 911 trailing arms in the rear you will be stuck with a large spacer no matter what 16" wheels you run.

^^^This is true. You might look at running some Euromeister 8" up front, but I am unsure of their offsets vs the stock 7's. You will still need spacers, but maybe not as tall. Might result in some steering dynamics changes as well. BONUS: "Running square" allows you to really maximize your tires through a 4-way rotation.

[Fly911]

The 930 Turbo used the same front suspension as the 911, but with 21mm spacers to fill out the fenders. This resulted in a much larger (and undesirable) scrub radius, and even with the 930 non rubber tie rods, the 930 never had the nimble steering of the 911. The 930 front wheels were 7"x16"ET23.3
The rear suspension on the 930 however, was totally different, with shorter control arms and a different kinematics of the rear wheel travel under load and unload. The pivot point of the shorter control arms were further rearward and outward than the 911. The 930 rear wheels were 8"x16"ET10.8 or 9"x16"ET16. 15" wheels with the same offsets were also used.
If you plan on getting 930 fenders on your 911, you should get wheels with the correct offset to fill out the wider fenders, rather than using spacers. If you insist on using 8" wide rear wheels, you will end up with spacers weighing more than the rim itself! I don't think anyone in their right mind would recommend you to do that.
With limited availability of high performance 16" tires, I would have gone to 17" Fuchs replicas. There are OK cheap ones (Euromeister and Rota Fox), and expensive ones (Braid, Fikse and more).
I'm running Rota Fox ($1,300 for all four) on my '87 Carrera, and they look great and work fine, street and track. They are 7.5"x17"ET36 and 9"x17"ET16 with 225/50-17 and 255/40-17 tires.
Still, I have to use spacers (which I really don't like), 21mm front and 25mm rear, on a narrow body Carrera. To get more camber and less scrub radius in the front, I have lengthened the control arms by 20mm, and am now using 6mm spacers to clear the coil over springs. So the ideal ET on the front wheels would be 30mm. In the rear, where I'm using 25mm spacers, the ideal ET would be -9mm (16mm offset minus 25mm spacer).
My car is lowered to the point where the top of the tires are barely inside of the fenders, and with 3.8 degrees of negative camber on all four.

[PorscheRally]

What I understand from the above posts is, having the real set up as in the 930 is not so easy unless the rear suspension also converted to the factory 930.
By the way, I am not sure about the availability of all the 930 rear suspension components.
However, front wheels can be purchased with the correct ET plus the 21mm factory spacers but the rears are the problem. For the rears, lets say if using 8"x16, possibly some aftermarket wheels with the max possible offset can be solution when using with a sensible thickness spacer. Anyway, without the correct 930 rear suspension parts and set up, this is just trying to make it work kind of formula when just the fenders added to the narrow body 911.
If I understand correct ( above ), there are serious limitations but at least fronts are easy. Tyre availability is certainly a big problem.

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by PorscheRally

What I understand from the above posts is, having the real set up as in the 930 is not so easy unless the rear suspension also converted to the factory 930.
By the way, I am not sure about the availability of all the 930 rear suspension components.
However, front wheels can be purchased with the correct ET plus the 21mm factory spacers but the rears are the problem. For the rears, lets say if using 8"x16, possibly some aftermarket wheels with the max possible offset can be solution when using with a sensible thickness spacer. Anyway, without the correct 930 rear suspension parts and set up, this is just trying to make it work kind of formula when just the fenders added to the narrow body 911.
If I understand correct ( above ), there are serious limitations but at least fronts are easy. Tyre availability is certainly a big problem.

Correct. A turbo suspension is substantially different than a narrow-bodied car, especially in the rear. There is some anti-dive geometry going on in the front too, but I've never really looked into it. Adding flares, turbo tie-rods, wider tires, wider wheels and changing shocks does not a turbo suspension make. Additionally, turbo cars have different brake arrangements, with the rear calipers being mounted of the trailing side of the rear rotors.

FWIW, the factory used spacers for both the early turbos and M491 cars in the rear, so I am pretty comfortable thinking they are OK to use on your car. See this thread.

wheel spacers on widebody

[Flojo]

As far as I recall the 930 3.0/3.3 had 28mm spacers from factory with the 8x16 Fuchs (et11), lip non rolled.
Up front it had regular 7x16 (et23), no spacer.

A friend now uses 35mm spacers with 9x16 (et15), lip rolled.

[PorscheRally]

Originally Posted by Edoyle

https://members.rennlist.com/911pcars/WheelWts.html

If you have 911 trailing arms in the rear you will be stuck with a large spacer no matter what 16" wheels you run.

Many thanks for the list. Very helpful info which I didn't have before.

Large spacer. Today, we have the 80 mm spacer which is way too large in my opinion.
Probably the wrong 8" but I will soon check the part numbers of the wheels for a better identification.

[PorscheRally]

Originally Posted by Fly911

The 930 Turbo used the same front suspension as the 911, but with 21mm spacers to fill out the fenders. This resulted in a much larger (and undesirable) scrub radius, and even with the 930 non rubber tie rods, the 930 never had the nimble steering of the 911. The 930 front wheels were 7"x16"ET23.3
The rear suspension on the 930 however, was totally different, with shorter control arms and a different kinematics of the rear wheel travel under load and unload. The pivot point of the shorter control arms were further rearward and outward than the 911. The 930 rear wheels were 8"x16"ET10.8 or 9"x16"ET16. 15" wheels with the same offsets were also used.
If you plan on getting 930 fenders on your 911, you should get wheels with the correct offset to fill out the wider fenders, rather than using spacers. If you insist on using 8" wide rear wheels, you will end up with spacers weighing more than the rim itself! I don't think anyone in their right mind would recommend you to do that.
With limited availability of high performance 16" tires, I would have gone to 17" Fuchs replicas. There are OK cheap ones (Euromeister and Rota Fox), and expensive ones (Braid, Fikse and more).
I'm running Rota Fox ($1,300 for all four) on my '87 Carrera, and they look great and work fine, street and track. They are 7.5"x17"ET36 and 9"x17"ET16 with 225/50-17 and 255/40-17 tires.
Still, I have to use spacers (which I really don't like), 21mm front and 25mm rear, on a narrow body Carrera. To get more camber and less scrub radius in the front, I have lengthened the control arms by 20mm, and am now using 6mm spacers to clear the coil over springs. So the ideal ET on the front wheels would be 30mm. In the rear, where I'm using 25mm spacers, the ideal ET would be -9mm (16mm offset minus 25mm spacer).
My car is lowered to the point where the top of the tires are barely inside of the fenders, and with 3.8 degrees of negative camber on all four.

It seems that, we prefer to stay on 16" it will certainly be wiser to get replica 8/9" with the max offset possible. This will reduce the thickness of the spacers both front and rear.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by PorscheRally

Dear Friends,
Can you please advice the correct ET with 7&8 / 16" wheels with or without spacers ?
I am trying to correct the situation which has 50 mm front and 80 mm rear spacers ( existing set up ) to fill the turbo look fenders.
I am not sure about the 80 mm rear spacers but in my opinion 50 mm front spacers are absolutely no-go.
Regards

Stock 930 w/ 7 & 8 Fuchs used 21mm front and 28mm rear spacers
up to 1980 the fronts spacers were removable, from 1981 he spacer is integral w/the hubs. All 930 trailing arms have an extra ~1.5" of o/s. so the 28mm 930 spacer is going to be ~ 1.5" too narrow. On a 911 w/ 930 rear fndrs ~66mm spacer will be needed w/ 8s

typically an SC w/ 930 f/r fenders uses 9ET13 w/ 255/ 40 and 11Et-8 w/ 315/35

[PorscheRally]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Stock 930 w/ 7 & 8 Fuchs used 21mm front and 28mm rear spacers
up to 1980 the fronts spacers were removable, from 1981 he spacer is integral w/the hubs. All 930 trailing arms have an extra ~1.5" of o/s. so the 28mm 930 spacer is going to be ~ 1.5" too narrow. On a 911 w/ 930 rear fndrs ~66mm spacer will be needed w/ 8s

typically an SC w/ 930 f/r fenders uses 9ET13 w/ 255/ 40 and 11Et-8 w/ 315/35

Hi Bill,
Thank you.
If I understand correct, for either 15" or 16" wheels, the above mentioned spacers 21mm and 28 mm were the factory fitted.
Meaning that, normally, with the correct ET 7" front wheel it will be OK to fill the turbo fenders. ( providing that the ET is correct for the given. 7" wheel - I will have to check the ET to see if we have the correct wheel )
However, the rear needs 66 mm spacer for the correct 8" wheel. Again I have to check the ET on our 8"x16" wheel to see if our wheel will work with 66 mm spacer. Probably, it will because the current spacer is 80 mm and OK.
The front seems to have an odd 50 mm spacer which I don't like. May be, our 7" wheel is not the correct 7" since it did require 50 mm spacer as previously fitted.

[Fly911]

Are people really having 50mm and/or 66mm spacers on their cars? That is beyond absurd to me... If anyone are modifying their narrow body 911 to a wide body, they should do it 100% and not 50%, and then try to correct their "mistake" by installing gigantic spacers. Just my opinion...

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by PorscheRally

Hi Bill,
Thank you.
If I understand correct, for either 15" or 16" wheels, the above mentioned spacers 21mm and 28 mm were the factory fitted.
Meaning that, normally, with the correct ET 7" front wheel it will be OK to fill the turbo fenders. ( providing that the ET is correct for the given. 7" wheel - I will have to check the ET to see if we have the correct wheel )
However, the rear needs 66 mm spacer for the correct 8" wheel. Again I have to check the ET on our 8"x16" wheel to see if our wheel will work with 66 mm spacer. Probably, it will because the current spacer is 80 mm and OK.
The front seems to have an odd 50 mm spacer which I don't like. May be, our 7" wheel is not the correct 7" since it did require 50 mm spacer as previously fitted.

yes
early 930 used 15, later 16
both 15 & 16 were 7ET23.3 & 8ET10.6. The last few years the 8s were changed to 9ET15

all used the same 21mm front and 28mm rear spacers. As noted above, though 1980 the fronts were separate removable pieces, from 1980 the front spacers were integrated w// the hubs.

[PorscheRally]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

yes
early 930 used 15, later 16
both 15 & 16 were 7ET23.3 & 8ET10.6. The last few years the 8s were changed to 9ET15

all used the same 21mm front and 28mm rear spacers. As noted above, though 1980 the fronts were separate removable pieces, from 1980 the front spacers were integrated w// the hubs.

Thank you very much.

[PorscheRally]

Originally Posted by Fly911

Are people really having 50mm and/or 66mm spacers on their cars? That is beyond absurd to me... If anyone are modifying their narrow body 911 to a wide body, they should do it 100% and not 50%, and then try to correct their "mistake" by installing gigantic spacers. Just my opinion...

Fully agree!!! I also think using 50/80 mm spacers is big mistake. I am trying to correct the situation to an acceptable level.

[xtturbox]

old thread but wanted ask and state. I have 911sc widebody with Gotti 15" wheels with no spacers and they come out to the fender lip and look cool. I however do not care for 15" wheels and have been looking for quite sometime and everywhere for wheels that will look correct. I used a friends 996 turbo twists to see what I am up against. His wheels are 18x9.5 et 52 and 18x11 et 65 these wheels are so far off I wouldn't even bother on a widebody but it was quite funny to see them mounted. The front would need 2" spacer and the rear about 4 1/2" spacer just to fill the wells correctly. Now looking at wheels it seems that everything with the highest offset I can find on "ebay" are about +20offset which to me seems like the wrong way, as I would imagine it would need to be -20 offset for my car. anyone have any ideas besides spending $3500 to $5500 for porsche wheels used??

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by xtturbox

old thread but wanted ask and state. I have 911sc widebody with Gotti 15" wheels with no spacers and they come out to the fender lip and look cool. I however do not care for 15" wheels and have been looking for quite sometime and everywhere for wheels that will look correct. I used a friends 996 turbo twists to see what I am up against. His wheels are 18x9.5 et 52 and 18x11 et 65 these wheels are so far off I wouldn't even bother on a widebody but it was quite funny to see them mounted. The front would need 2" spacer and the rear about 4 1/2" spacer just to fill the wells correctly. Now looking at wheels it seems that everything with the highest offset I can find on "ebay" are about +20offset which to me seems like the wrong way, as I would imagine it would need to be -20 offset for my car. anyone have any ideas besides spending $3500 to $5500 for porsche wheels used??

The trailing arms in back and the hubs in front are different for 930 and 911, just adding 930 fenders does not imply that the same wheels can be used on either.

For a 911 suspension car w/ 930 fenders and w/o spacers
front
9ET13 w/ 255 tire

rear
11ET-8 w/ 315 tire

doesn't matter if 17 or 18s just keep the tire height <25"