Euro 930 headers, any pics? Tech ?'s also

[lendaddy]

Ok,
I think I give up on finding a set of used B&B or GHL headers with heat for my 930. I have been scanning the web, Pano, Excellence, etc.. for literally over a year. I simply refuse to pay $2k for a set when I am kinda "in that business" and I know how bad they are guaging us. I simply do not have the time to fabricate a set myself. I have been haunted by that idea for some time now, but running my business takes me from morning till nite for the most part and being that I am kinda in the business I know how long prototypes take. Therefore I am considering an alternative. I have what I believe is a set of euro exchangers that are in poor shape except for the initial header which is fine. I can certainly manufacture everything after that in a lot less time. My question is do I actually have the prefered euro headers or not? Does anyone have a pic? Mine come off the heads into a collector in very short order then go into my heat exchangers which are rotton and cracked. Any pics/thoughts?

[lendaddy]

I did a little digging and it seems I dont have euro exchangers. What I have is the original exhaust with the three tube "shorty" headers for bypassing the original thermal reactors. Are these three tube shorties worth using or should I scrap the whole deal? Thanks.

[cowtown]

Anderson says in his book that the "shorty" TR replacements are fine for their intended purpose: eliminating the heat from the TRs. But to do performance mods, you want to start by putting in a Euro exhaust system.
Colin

[RarlyL8]

The thermol reactor replacement "shorty headers" do nothing for performance and they wiegh a ton. Here is a pic of the left side of my engine with Euro exhaust. I am sold on this setup. You can find them for $500 and they allow all the upgrades to work. The expensive SS heat exchangers by B&B, etc. don't give much bang for the buck compared to the Euro setup.

[emcon5]

Here is the cartoon from the parts list:



This looks almost exactly like what you were bidding on in the Ebay auction a couple weeks ago.

There are a shedload of pictures in that auction, I would save them to your hard drive before the auction goes away.

The exchangers look similar to the SC and Carrera types, but contrary to what is shown in the other thread the SC and 86 Turbo(and Carrera) heat exchangers have different part numbers. I know the pipe diameter is different between 3.2 and 3.0 engines, but I don't know what size the 3.3 pipes are.

That would be great if the Carrera or SC HE's would work, as there are a ton of them out there from people who have put on SSI's. All you would need to to is fab the other pipe.

Tom

[rboylan]

Lucky for you I've just replaced 7 broken head studs on my '79. I removed the TR crap and replaced it with this. These still retain the 911 sound but run much cooler here in Florida.

Excuse the sloppy garage.

[dean]

Lendaddy,
So you think you are being gouged because they charge money for those headers? Have you priced the raw 321 SS for those headers. And how many hrs would it take you to build them? I am going to build some SS heatexchangers for my car this winter. I think the GHL headers are a good price for the amount of work that is involved.

[baratta930]

The B&B headers are definitely worth it, when we did a dyno day at our local PCA club, my car (84 930 with B&B headers and everything else stock) pulled 295RWHP/305RWTq, a fellow club member's car (85 930, bone stock (i.e. euro headers)), pulled 257RWHP/283RWTq.

Both cars were recently tuned up by the same mechanic and mileage was similar. So the B&B headers were worth 38RWHP/22RWTq. And lag difference is amazing.

I was pretty happy especially since they were on the car when I bought them (put on 12 years ago and so far no problems)

Hope this helps ...

Berardino
84 930

BTW, this also helps prove that 15% drivetrain loss is about right. 257 * 1.15 = 296HP. 257/0.85 = 302HP. Stock is 300HP

[lendaddy]

"Have you priced the raw 321 SS for those headers"
Yes, thats what I do. When I say I am kinda in the business thats what I am saying. My business is the cutting, bending, welding, and fabrication of S.S. tubular products for automotive/furniture/consumer products (high production, not a job shop). We have done this for 20 yrs. S.S. tubing is NOT that expensive! Not from the mills anyway. Out on my floor I have a about a million ft of various S.S. tube. The problem is in the bending. We do mandrel bending but you need specific tooling for every tube diameter and wall variation and it is not cheap. I do not happen to have the tooling I would need for this. It is a couple grand and at that point it would be cheaper to buy the set from GHL. As far as the welding goes that is childs play. I admit TIG can be time consuming but it is not difficult. There is about $100 to $150 in tubing in a set of headers by my estimation and I am being generous. They are very nice units however and design is also worth $. I am not knocking the units, just the pricing. I am probably being over critical of their pricing if I really think about it, they have a lot of $ into R&D, marketing, etc... which they have to get paid for and I doubt the volume is very high. So in closing it's just sour grapes on my part, I just know roughly what they must have into the actual units and it is a little sickening. I may still bite the bullit, but I won't be happy about it. Thanks again guys for all your replies.

[dean]

Well I can tell you to get mandrel bends in 321 SS will cost you more than $150. They are $60 each. It just kind of bugs me that you think they are ripping you off because they want to get paid for there time. It takes time to weld up a set of headers. Don't you like to get paid when you go to work. I know I do.

[lendaddy]

No, it costs YOU $60 for a mandrel bend from a reseller. I have for instance an industrial customer for which we cut to length, wire brush deburr ends (ID and OD), punch (2) 1/4" inch holes in one end and mandrel bend to a 90 degree angle on one end (material is 2" O.D. x .053" wall). What do you think I charge for this service? $20? $10? try $0.875 per piece. Yes you read that right as 87.5 cents american. Standard burden of labor rates for a TIG welder would run between $45 and $75 per hour to the manufacturer. Lets assume that it takes your welder 4 solid hours to weld a set up (which it would not, in a production setup) and your looking at what a $300 investment in labor? Yes I know you still have polishing, packaging, R&D, marketing etc.... like I said earlier I am probably being too hard on them but it irks me when I know what it takes. And common business sense tells me that the many brands are priced similarly for a reason. Again I admit to a small case of sour grapes.

[jbailey930]

Hey all,
I started with 3 into one thermal reactor replacement set up on stock 930. Then I picked up some euro/later style headers. Big difference in lowering spool time and hp. I moved up to the GHL setup with my rebuild project. Likewise performance, but as far as bang for buck the euro setup at $300 can not be beat. I was able to re-sell them for $300 too.

[beepbeep]

Here you go:

[Jocke]

Pic.1


Pic.2


/J

[Jocke]

Damn!!

I try again...

[dean]

Good luck