Is this a good price?

[Slider79SC]

I am fairly new to the Porsche world and am a little unsure if I am getting a good deal on my top end engine rebuild. The valves recently decided that they would rather be curved than straight. Oops…

Here is what is being done. I am sure that there is a lot more here seeing that I do not know the process of rebuilding a Porsche engine. It is a 3.0 SC engine

All new valves, guides, seals and assembly. Valve job and resurfaced (if necessary). All new springs, rockers and shafts. Cams reground to 964 specs. The shop is doing all the disassembly and reassembly; all I did was pull the engine myself.

The rebuild is costing me 3k, is this a fairly good price?

[k9handler]

if they do a good job, I would think that's a good price. But I am sure that you could get a better answer from some of the gurus.

[ChrisBennet]

If they aren't doing it anyway, have them replace the valve spring retainers and keepers.
-Chris

[john_colasante]

It is definately in the right ballpark.

[APKhaos]

Do you have some references on the shop from local Pcar guys who know they do good work? If you do, then jump on this deal. 'Book' hours for a top end range from 30 to 35 hours, at around $60/hour. You saved around three hours for the engine R&R.

Its a good idea to do the valve spring retainers & keepers, as Chris says. I'd be wanting to do the rod bearings and rings which is an easy job once the heads are off.

My more paranoid side says have the shop reinstall and test run the engine after this work is done. This removes any risk of finger pointing of something goes wrong. Did I say paranoid??

[Jdub]

I agree with Tony. Guess I shouldn't ask if you ought to replace the exhaust-side head studs...?

Just a thought. The shop may be able to retorque all of them and tell you if they're OK.

John

[Wayne 962]

Wait one month, and pick up a copy of my new book - it has all the questions that you need to ask your mechanic in order to assure that you are getting a good, reliable rebuild...

-Wayne

[speeder]

Price sounds reasonable for the work/parts that you have listed, but I question why you would need ALL new valves+rockers and shafts, (?), what happened to this motor anyways? Also, I have just had a very expensive top end job done on my SC, (Competition Engineering did the heads/rockers), and while I replaced the springs as recommended, he did not tell me to replace keepers/retainers. Can't understand why not to reuse these, they are strong and not overly stressed. TIA for opinions.

[Slider79SC]

Hi Denis,

I'll list out the reasons for all the new parts, this motor was over revved so some of the valve train took quite a hit;

All of the exhaust valves were bent and the intake valves were showing some wear on the shaft and since they aren't that expensive, we went ahead and replaced them so that everything would be new.

The engine has 113,000 on it so it turned out that the rockers were pitted pretty badly and they are cheap also. New rockers should never be installed without new shafts and seals. And it is a good idea to replace the rockers when you put in new cams so that they wear evenly together.

The last time we adjusted the valves (before the zinging) we found a couple of broken inner springs so it was better to replace all of them since we were in there.

The retainers were bead blasted and inspected during the head teardown and more than half of them were showing cracks, probably from the over rev. The shop that did my heads is very well respected within our region so I trust their judgment.

I stopped by yesterday to drop of all of the pieces that I had powder coated and the reassembly is almost complete, I should be able to pick it up on Tuesday and install it next weekend.

[Vipergrün]

Slider, I got these prices from EBS Racing a few months back. You could save quite a few clams doing it yourself if you are so inclined. Then you would have some bucks for 964 cams *while you are in there*

edit: sorry, missed the cam part from your post...


Race springs (20lb more than stock) 345.00
Titanium spring retainers 195.00
Intake valves x 6 114.00
Exhaust valves x 6 168.00
Heads, 5 point grind, port, assemble, test 485.00


Total for Valve job and heads 1307.00

[speeder]

Brad, Does that include all new guides installed and heads fly-cut? If so, that is a screamin' deal.

[targa80]

If you don't have the upgraded chain tesioners now would be a good time to have that mod done.

[Slider79SC]

Thanks for the suggestion Pat, we had them done last year. Its just one of those comfort issues....

Just got back from the shop, I am almost ready to go vroom vroom again.

[Slider79SC]

I know I know... I still need to remove the heater blower and do a little detailing.... It should be back in and running next weekend.

[Joe Bob]

While you are in there.....

Consider a different cam profile....964 cams or the 20/21s.

[Slider79SC]

Great minds think alike.... got the 964 grind from Elgin.

[Joe Bob]

OK.....replace all the head studs with steel oem.....don't waste your money on Raceware.....

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by speeder
Brad, Does that include all new guides installed and heads fly-cut? If so, that is a screamin' deal.

Speeder, sorry, do not know what *fly cut* really is, but I thought that was the technique used to raise compression. That was not included. Also do not recall about the guides.....sorry. Still seemed like a good deal, though.

[speeder]

Well, the fly-cutting that I am refering to does not raise CR, the factory allows .25mm to be surfaced from heads, (basically one cut for the life of the heads), then you put .25mm bigger spacers between cylinders and case. Obviously you do not want to cut heads at all if not neccesary, but a couple of mine were beat a little from having broken studs so they (all) needed to be surfaced. They need to be uniform, at least on each side of motor.

As for guides, they are an extremely important part of a top end job, they wear out, (especially the exhaust side), and need to be replaced. Any competent machine shop, (like EBS), would measure them and implore you to replace them if neccesary.