German Specification vs Euro Spec

[Overlander 80]

Just got the COA for my 911 and she's numbers matching. After 15 years I figured I'd check and see.....

I knew it was sold originally to a US military leiutenant in Berlin ('77) then brought to the east coast in '79, not on the tourist delivery program. I see no federalization evidence other than the redundant amber lenses up front and the import tag in the driver door jam.

Since 'Euro Spec' is the verbiage most commonly used, that's what I was expecting the COA to state, but it specifies 'German Specification'.

So my question is in the title, anybody know the nuances?

Please no speculation, looking for facts.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

[Bob Kontak]

Rest Of World associates with the engine code. That is the most common term.

Germany is a county code - C00 - that the car was made to be delivered into. It has a ROW engine.

Lots of countries of origin have the ROW engine but they (the car) probably were tweaked just a wee bit to comply with local laws.

You need to get one of those PDF Porsche parts lists. Way at the end it gives the types of engines for each year. Meaning for the 78 3.0 there may be three or four different engine types (in addition to the turbo engine). Like USA/Can, Japan, ROW

[Canada Kev]

I know "Euro" spec is pretty generic, as many Euro countries have different requirements. For example, my Swiss market car has different transmission ratios than do the US/Canada/Japan cars and the other "Euro" or RoW cars

It's likely just something as simple as your car was destined for the German market and had to be tagged as such. However, there were specific requirements of each country that had to be checked off such as lighting - Italy and France had differing lighting requirements and some countries needed rear fog light, possibly emissions equipment, etc.

I don't know what any specific requirements for Germany, as opposed to other European countries, were at that time, but I believe the 911/81 engine was the same tune as all the other RoW cars.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Overlander 80

Just got the COA for my 911 and she's numbers matching. After 15 years I figured I'd check and see.....

I knew it was sold originally to a US military leiutenant in Berlin ('77) then brought to the east coast in '79, not on the tourist delivery program. I see no federalization evidence other than the redundant amber lenses up front and the import tag in the driver door jam.

Since 'Euro Spec' is the verbiage most commonly used, that's what I was expecting the COA to state, but it specifies 'German Specification'.

So my question is in the title, anybody know the nuances?

Please no speculation, looking for facts.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

so this is a '76 or 77 911?
911, 911S, Carrera 3.0?

Back in those days there was a one time personal import rule that was the most often method of getting a RoW car registered in the US

The process involved getting the car into DoT compliance, that meant door guard beams, lights, lens etc.
These cars were exempted from EPA rules

When brought in the cars were impounded at the port of entry a bond posted then the car was allowed to be shipped to a shop which performed the DoT compliance. On release from the shop to the owner 3 documents were provided
one was a copy of a letter from DoT NHTSA to the US Customs Service acknowledging that the car was in compliance w/ all DoT regs 19 CFR 12.80(e) releasing the car o the registered importer(owner). Included was a waiver of the rest of the FMVSS that were in effect at that time.

the second was OMB N0. 2000-0041, this was the Motor Vehicle Import document specifying who the importer was and under what regulations. Since box 10 is checked this from states that the car needs to be brought into emissions compliance before release to the owner.

the third is a copy of a letter from the EPA office of Air, Noise and Radiation, granting a waiver of the previous documents requirement that the car be brought into US emissions compliance. This letter further states that safety and state and local regulations must still be satisfied before the car can be registered.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Canada Kev

For example, my Swiss market car has different transmission ratios than do the US/Canada/Japan cars and the other "Euro" or RoW cars

That's interesting. Are they longer or shorter gears or a different mix. Wonder why? Terrain?

[Bill Verburg]

The OP needs to identify exactly what year and model, otherwise the subject gets too broad
in '76
here are the manual transmissions used in n/a 911s
915/40 5 speed, mechanical speedo used in some 911 in all markets ex J
915/43 5 speed, electric speedo used for Japanese market
915/44 5 speed, electric speedo used for all market 911S, Carrera 3.0
915/45 4 speed, mechanical speedo used in some 911 in all markets, ex J
915/49 4 speed, electric speedo used for Japanese market
Other years have similarly diverse offerings

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by Canada Kev

I know "Euro" spec is pretty generic, as many Euro countries have different requirements. For example, my Swiss market car has different transmission ratios than do the US/Canada/Japan cars and the other "Euro" or RoW cars

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

That's interesting. Are they longer or shorter gears or a different mix. Wonder why? Terrain?

Bob, the ratios on the Swiss G50 were different, I believe, to meet noise regulations. In general, they were taller across the board relative to the North American G50/01 and taller for gears 1-4 and the same for 5 on the RoW G50/00. It can also be beneficial in some low velocity corners or autocross where you can stay in second gear and not shift back and forth to third and still maintain a higher speed. I guess it shows that there can be some significant, but not obvious, differences in cars of neighbouring countries.


G50/00
911 Carrera 1987-89 (after 1987 R.O.W.)
1st gear: 3.50
2nd gear: 2.059
3rd gear: 1.409
4th gear: 1.074
5th gear: 0.861 (after 1988 0.868)
Ring and pinion: 3.44

G50/01
911 Carrera 1987-89 USA/Canada/Japan
1st gear: 3.50
2nd gear: 2.059
3rd gear: 1.409
4th gear: 1.125
5th gear: 0.889 (after 1988 0.892)
Ring and pinion: 3.44

G50/02
911 Carrera 1987-89 Switzerland
1st gear: 3.154
2nd gear: 1.895
3rd gear: 1.333
4th gear: 1.036
5th gear: 0.861 (after 1988 0.868)
Ring and pinion: 3.44

[sm70911]

I have a German market car, exact same story, except mine is an SC. Purchased by a US Pilot. It has every record since purchased new at Otto Glockler in Frankfurt. When i first found the car i did a lot of research on the car talked to an older guy at Glockler, he told me the LSD on my car was something they had put on every car they sold through the dealership back then. He could not explain why.
My gear ratios are different, again Glockler told me this was 'gearing for the Autobahn'. Fifth gear on my car is certainly very tall. I have all the EPA docs, luckily the car somehow escaped many of the US changes.
My car came with some other odd options. Berber fronted fabric sport seats among them. The car never had lower fog lights.


I can post some of the German docs later of that helps.

[Matt Monson]

What are you asking about the title? The title would just be based on the vin. It will say it is a Porsche 911 cpe and year of manufacture. Titles are state issued. There is no euro title to your car and if there had been one it would have been surrender.

[Canada Kev]

Matt, I think he was referring to the title of the thread: German Specification vs Euro Spec.

The OP was asking about the Porsche issued CoA, in which it stated his car was "German specification" and not the generic Euro, and what differences are between that and other RoW countries' specs.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by sm70911

I have a German market car, exact same story, except mine is an SC. Purchased by a US Pilot. It has every record since purchased new at Otto Glockler in Frankfurt. When i first found the car i did a lot of research on the car talked to an older guy at Glockler, he told me the LSD on my car was something they had put on every car they sold through the dealership back then. He could not explain why.
My gear ratios are different, again Glockler told me this was 'gearing for the Autobahn'. Fifth gear on my car is certainly very tall. I have all the EPA docs, luckily the car somehow escaped many of the US changes.
My car came with some other odd options. Berber fronted fabric sport seats among them. The car never had lower fog lights.


I can post some of the German docs later of that helps.

Again w/o the specifics of what year and model it depends
for 911SC
1978/79, 915/61 was the only m/ trans worldwide
1980-83, 915/62 was the only m/ trans w/w
the only difference in gearing was a slightly taller 5th on the /62 giving 150mph top vs 155mph for the /61

[BlueWing]

Don't they use those "E" number stickers in the drivers side door jam near the latch to ID various Euro country specifications?

When mine was repainted before my ownership the jams were painted as well thus no stickers.

My COA states nothing of intended market. I know it was first owned by a Dr. attending school in Italy and he bought it stateside. I have copies of the paperwork from the DOT/EPA and Customs.

Does anyone have the E sticker data? I would be interested in this. Maybe be able to compare car features to them and come up with the various country specs to determine their original market.

Here is a picture I copied from here as an example.

Terry


Terry

[proporsche]

Hi..here is my 1985 euro 911 sticker, purchased in Germany shipped to Finland and then i got it in LA...and shipped back to Europa....

ivan

[Bill Douglas]

My 1979 is a 911 SC Sport. It's got the ROW build for the UK and has a 930/10 engine fitted, with SSIs and 964 cams. Factory delivered with Bilsteins, 16" wheels and recaro sport seats.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Canada Kev

Matt, I think he was referring to the title of the thread: German Specification vs Euro Spec.

oops

[Canada Kev]

Yeah, well, we all have our moments...

[Overlander 80]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The OP needs to identify exactly what year and model, otherwise the subject gets too broad
in '76
here are the manual transmissions used in n/a 911s
915/40 5 speed, mechanical speedo used in some 911 in all markets ex J
915/43 5 speed, electric speedo used for Japanese market
915/44 5 speed, electric speedo used for all market 911S, Carrera 3.0
915/45 4 speed, mechanical speedo used in some 911 in all markets, ex J
915/49 4 speed, electric speedo used for Japanese market
Other years have similarly diverse offerings

It's a '77 Targa 5 speed with 911 on the deck lid.

[Overlander 80]

Originally Posted by sm70911

I have a German market car, exact same story, except mine is an SC. Purchased by a US Pilot. It has every record since purchased new at Otto Glockler in Frankfurt. When i first found the car i did a lot of research on the car talked to an older guy at Glockler, he told me the LSD on my car was something they had put on every car they sold through the dealership back then. He could not explain why.
My gear ratios are different, again Glockler told me this was 'gearing for the Autobahn'. Fifth gear on my car is certainly very tall. I have all the EPA docs, luckily the car somehow escaped many of the US changes.
My car came with some other odd options. Berber fronted fabric sport seats among them. The car never had lower fog lights.


I can post some of the German docs later of that helps.

Interesting, those side fender indicator lights are not present on my car. Maybe I should contact the dealership in Berlin and see if they have records going back that far. Mine does not have LSD on the COA.

[Overlander 80]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

What are you asking about the title? The title would just be based on the vin. It will say it is a Porsche 911 cpe and year of manufacture. Titles are state issued. There is no euro title to your car and if there had been one it would have been surrender.

I was referring to the title of my thread, not car title.

[Overlander 80]

Originally Posted by proporsche

Hi..here is my 1985 euro 911 sticker, purchased in Germany shipped to Finland and then i got it in LA...and shipped back to Europa....

ivan

Wow, she's a globe trotter......cool.