Jason - if the color is acceptable to you, one negotiating point may be to get them to match the door jams and other obvious visible areas. Even if the color they painted it is the correct factory paint code as specified, I would think they have a duty to notify you sometime early on in the process that the top coat is not matching the existing paint.

With that much work involved, one would think that the paint shop on their own would spray a sample and call you in for approval. I mean, they are also interested to cover their a$$ to ge the paint right. It also seems strange that the shop didn't call you to tell you that other parts of the car didn't match with the new color. That would be a point in court. Try and find out if it is industry standard to let the customer see a sample before a shop goes ahead and paints the whole car. If the contract only says 474 but no actual name for the paint, it does not make it easier when there are two different names under the same #. Disappointing. :(

Could it be…

When a painter applies metallic paint products to the surface, there are a few variables. The air pressure at the spray gun can determine the appearance or color. As you increase or decrease the pressure you change the angle that the metallic or synthetic particles lay down on the surface. The transparent portion or color of the paint lightens or darkens dependant on the angle of the particles.

there just isnt enough metallic particles. thats what it looks like to me

Jason, I don't know you, or most of the details of this job, but the fact that the last <u>two</u> times you had paintwork done, the same thing happened looks, well... kind of funny to me.

<u>Why didn't you ask for a sample?</u>

I can understand this all happening to someone who's never had paint work done before, or had, and always came away with exactly what they expected... but that's not the case, here.

Again, I don't know anything about this incident other than what you've typed here. But the impression I get is that this sounds almost more like a method of price negotiation than a legitimate beef with the painter's work.

In reality, that could very well not be the case at all. I just wanted to say that -- going solely by the way you describe things taking place -- I can't for the life of me understand why you would let the painter go ahead with all this work without signing off on a sample. To an outsider, it just doesn't make any sense.

Well, whoever made the comment about a human mixing the color is right.

There are basically two types of paint packaging systems out in the world. First there is what is called “Factory Packed”, which means that the manufacturer mixed the paint in your can. And the second type and the most widely used is “Mix at Dealer”. With all the paints colors used out in the world, the variables are staggering.

The “Mix at Dealer” has a lot of variables.

The two ways that I know of mixing paint, they are by weight and the other is by volume. In either case if the person mixing the paint isn’t exact, the color is going to off.

If the person mixing the paint dribbles the paint down the side of the can, then the mixture is not correct.

If the scale is over splashed with paint, which renders the scale inaccurate, then all is in vane.

If in either case the colorants were not mixed up before they are added to your paint can, there may have been some separation of the materials. Most paint mixing systems use a bank of mixing colorants that are on special shelving unit. This shelving has a drive system that stirs the paint in each of the paint colorant cans. When turned on you can see the driven shafts turn the paddle shafts in the cans. If the metallic component in the colorant settles to the bottom of the base product and they don’t mix it every time they use product from that can, it can cause this paint mismatch no matter how careful they mix your can of paint.

All in all, IMHO, any paint shop should get the customers concurrence on the paint color before he applies the paint to the car.

Like everyone else i am curious if you OK'd a sample? I got my car painted this year and my guy wouldn't make a move until i came over and checked the sample.

As for finding a part of your car with the original color, take off your dash pad. The metal under there should be factory color, mine is, its the only part of my car that not orange.

You said that the paint code was on a sticker under the decklid? Could the decklid have been replaced?

Paul

the first time i saw it was right after he sprayed it before it was put back together. i knew then it was not right, and said so and he said, " when we color sand it, it will look different.

the sticker with the code is on the car under the decklid, you know with the other spec stickers, valve clearance, timing, etc...

The paint mixing process is a little more accurate than to make such a large error, there is however plenty of room for human error. I used to work at an auto parts store and we custom mixed Dunpont paint there. No matter how much paint was on the scale it didn't matter, the can is put on the scale, then zero'd, the mixing schedule lists out all the colors and components involved, in order, and how much weight of each color to put in. If you do happen to overpour, the computer can formulate a corrected formula of how to get back to the correct color.....so, it's actually very easy to correct mistakes. The metallics are all either powder or liquid, coarse, medium, fine, etc. Someone would have had to grad the wrong can completely to mess up the metallic. Any good paint store runs their mixer wall for 5-15 minutes before using them to insure an even mix with no variations. I've seen some screwed up colors before, always just minor tint variations though, never a complete color difference like the one described.
I'm also confused, you said you wanted it back to the original, but the model of the 959 is the color you "had in your head", those two are not the same color. You got what you asked for, the code for the 82 928 which is the rosewood, which is the color you said you loved.
Most painters tint and blend the mix to match the car, but when they're doing an overall, they don't, it doesn't usually matter. They wouldn't know it didn't match other parts because it's all masked off at this point.
Do yourself a favor and pay the paint shop, they did exactly what you asked them to do and did a good job of it.....

Jason, Give me the year, color code and color name, make and model of the car and I'll spray a sample for you. Do you want Sikkens, PPG, Glassurit, Omni? In most cases I'll spray a bumper extension because they have several different contours on them. This way you can see the color from many different angles at one time.

The question I didn't see an answer for was, did you have a written contract and did it specify this 474 palisander color? If so and you can prove the color is off, you may have a case. If your contract was verbal, I think you are hosed. I'd contact a rep from the paint manufacturer. Could be the supplier had a bad code in the mixing computer.

well, the after pics would still be nice...

however, both sikkens and glasurit give the paint code POR 474 as palisander metallic, not rosewood anything.

also, glasurit shows that code as only available in their "fantasy color" range, which is only sold in premixed tins (i.e. factory mixed tins), so if it's glasurit paint there's no question of the colour being the shop's fault - but if they mixed it themselves.......

hugh


http://212.108.28.13/cgi-nt/qnet/qncolorlist.asp?site=sikkens&md=man&mk=por&cc=474& cd=&cg=&yu=&pd=3&qy=1.0&um=1&pr=cum&go=Start+Searc h

Wrong Color
 

It's common for older cars to get repainted, then 20yrs later, a new paint job shows a different color. There could have some miscommunication between you and the painter where you thought that the color on the car was original, and the painter took the paint code off the body. Neither of you sounds at fault here. I have painted many many cars and your situation is common, sadly. Also, paint has matured over the years and will be a slightly different tint and hue than 20years ago. One option is to take the inside of the gas door, or under the engine lid and have a specialist match the color. I rescently had a 911 Minerva Blue that I could not match, I had to paint the hood! I even had a specialist try to match the paint and could not. Worse part is that I liked the color on the car better than the new paint. Had to paint the entire car, then sold it cause I was unhappy with the tint. Painting a 911 is a lotta work, more than most cars. You got a very reasonable price for painting the car. I have charged in the vicinity of $5k for a job. Maybe he could give you a break on a repaint?

911 Wrong Paint Followup
 

there just isnt enough metallic particles. thats what it looks like to me

I noticed this in a previous post. I noticed that glasurate is finer metallic finish than other paints like R&M and Dupont even tho the paint code is the same. In the early 80's Porsche experienced many clear coat failures and the car may have been repainted with a different paint. When I paint a car, and it appears that there is a lot of metallic in the paint, I go with a R&M. It's a judgement call. Also, did the paint have experience with this type of paint? I also agree with the human error in mixing. One more thing, I use a dark color primer for dark metallics and a blonde primer for lite metallics. Sometimes, it makes a difference.

kevin, that would be awsome. ill pay for it, i cant take that for free.
here is the info: 81 911SC 474-paliander metallic
thats all the info on the paint i have exept for i think this color code (474) actually changed names in 82 from rosewood to palisander metallic. so i guess i have an 81 with an 82 color on it

and by the way THANKS for all the info, unreal. and to address another post that eluded to the idea that i make a habit of getting cars painted and then going to court to get some kind of discount, thats just absurd.
lets do this- a wrong color starbucks run in LA. ill bring the car the samples and everything i get my hands on w/the correct color and you guys be the judge. sound like fun huh?

kevin- the guy said it was glasurit. but here is the thing. i saw his paint wall, it was half glasurit and half something else that i couldnt make out the name of

Jason,

I feel sorry for you. It must be very disappointing. I hope you can work things out amicably with the painter. Like someone earlier suggested, if they were willing to paint the inside door area etc I think this would be a pretty good compromise. Definitely not perfect and still something your probably going to look at forever and be a bit 'prickly' about.

I feel sorry for the painter too, 'cause like you said they did a great job.

I think that previous experience with the 914 is not an issue here. Like me, you probably wouldn't even think this would be a problem again. Jack and others might be up on all this, but I wouldn't even have thought about seeing a colour sample first (now I know!). As a pro painter, if this colour sample thing is common practice, then he should have advised YOU of this to save him time/money and deliver a good service to you. After all you are paying some good $ for this.

Call it naivety (sp) or whatever, I would have most likely done exactly as you had and ended up with the result you got - typical for me:rolleyes:

Anyhow, I just want to say, I hope things sort themselves out...good luck.....

Mark

Interesting development
 

If I look up "474" on the computer it tells me that it's an '81 '82 color, "Palisander". PPG color code 25037 two stage. If I look up the same number in my color chip book it lists 474 as Rosewood, same years with the same PPG color code (25037) two stage. Both sources provide an Identical formula for the paint. For some strange reason PPG doesn't provide color chips for any of the '82 production colors.
I'm having some paint mixed and will shoot a sample some time this comming week.
I haven't looked anything up in the Glassurite data base just yet.

cool let me know and ill come by, i appreciate that. thank you
ther will some pics up later today.......hopefully

kevinP73,

read the thread dude... i already looked up the color on the glasurit database and posted what it said (and sikkens says the same)

hugh