F1 is changing in a big way.

[autobonrun]

Looks like the rumors of massive changes to help F1 is under way.
They met on the 28th and the vote is on Monday.

1) Points system is changed; 8 points for second place versus six
2) The practice day now becomes a qualifying to determine the order they will run for next days actual qualifying session
3) Tire manufacturers can now bring more than one type of tire for different Constructors
4) A limit of 10 days testing during the season if testing is conducted during the off season

Oh, and Spa is out for next year. No Belgium GP for 2003 but could return for 2004. I expect it will.

Many of the bad ideas didn't fly but next season should be wild.

The first link are the new rules in full.

http://www.itv-f1.com/features/features_story/13320

http://www.itv-f1.com/features/features_story/13249


http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/13309

[poorb0yw]

How about the rumors that Porsche is gonna try to be a contender in F1 around 2005? Saw this in the latest edition of Racecar Engineering.

[Doug E]

I can deal with the other changes but no SPA next year? That's absurd as it is one of the top 10 tracks in the history of automotive racing.

Just goes to show the influence of big tobacco.

[jpachard]

Originally posted by Doug E
I can deal with the other changes but no SPA next year? That's absurd as it is one of the top 10 tracks in the history of automotive racing.

Just goes to show the influence of big tobacco.

Doug, I agree entirely, Spa is one of the all time classic motorsport venues. This just shows where F1 is going, next there going to try and nix Monaco , just you wait.......

James

[autobonrun]

I agree, dropping Spa is a shame. I think it was meant to make a strong point. If the FIA is willing to drop the most famous drivers venue, then the EU had better think twice about it's decision to impose the tobacco legislation in 2006 in other countries, Britian and France included. Belgium just screwed up in my opinion in not granting the temporary waiver for F1. The good part of this is I have an extra year to save up enough money to go back.

I also hope the rumor you mention about Porsche is true. I saw one Porsche shirt this year at Spa; when I happened to look down.

There is no reason Porsche should not be competing there again. With the new point system, the money should get spread around more evenly.

[Matt Holcomb]

Originally posted by poorb0yw
How about the rumors that Porsche is gonna try to be a contender in F1 around 2005? Saw this in the latest edition of Racecar Engineering.

Yes, it looks like it's going to happen, which would explain Porsche's conspicuous absence from Le Mans since 1998: you need $200-300 million to field a team for one year, but that's after you've developed your car and engine. I hate to think what the development costs would be.

I've said it before, but there's a reason why Porsche is making the V10 Carrera GT that goes beyond just wanting to create the ultimate supercar.


Matt Holcomb
MFIWDP
PRVC
BOHICA
1974 911 Carrera 2.7 RoW
1975 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
Dedicated Homepage
Engine Rebuild Homepage
Porsche Owners Gallery Profile
Pelican Gallery Profile

[GIBSON]

Do you think part of the reason Spa was dumped is that they only had 70,000 people for this years race? F1 never likes tracks that can't produce a good gate. Spa is one of the worlds great tracks but people going there can also make an easy drive to the Nurburgring, Hockenheim, Paul Ricard, Silverstone is not that far away either. Maybe there are too many choices too close together....

[Randy W]

I'll tell you, I'm really excited by the possibility of Porsche in F1. It's one of the only things I watch regularly, and to have our marque represented there would be incredible. I could get used to the idea of the Cayenne if they did that. The 8 points for 2nd place will be meaningful in regards to 3rd, but unless Michael retires or Mecedes and Williams solve their reliabilty problems, it probably won't make any difference in the world championship.

I always wanted to go to Spa, it's a shame if it never comes back.

[jluetjen]

I think that they missed the point. Their best bet for improving F1 would be to buy Michael Schumacher out of his Ferrari contract and give him opportunities for new challenges, either as a team owner or in a different arena, say NASCAR. The cash for the buy-out could be raised by having each team donate an amount equal to how much they would gain by moving up one position in the standings next year. The FIA could have chipped in with a free entry for 5 years for an "F1 Team Schumacher" while Ferrari could offer to supply the team with engines. Give Schumacher the opportunity hire no more then 3 people from Ferrari to seed his team and Voila: a new competative team in F1, and an end to Ferrari domination. Who knows, maybe Michael decides that his responsibilities as a husband and father are more important then anything he can gain by driving and he becomes a full time team manager. As the always intelligent Alain Prost demonstrated, it's not any easy thing to succeed at. An added bonus is that F1 would not have to risk having it's greatest driver die in a fatal accident.

Anyhow, I made this suggestion on another BBS and was greeted with some pretty rude responses. I still think that it's a pretty good win/win deal.

[Don Wohlfarth]

I like this rule change:

Team orders
Team orders which interfere with the race result are prohibited.

If you think about it that's got to be one of the funniest things to come out of F1 in years. Just because Bernie says it's so doesn't make it happen.
Who is going to monitor that fiasco? What will be the sanctions?
Since there will be points to the 8th position will the sanction be the same between drivers that swap positions between 7 and 8 the same as between 1 and 2?
With on the fly telemetry an engineer could retard the timing so badly the car couldn't get above 12,000 rpm. They could tell Bernie it was because of sun spots (or a full moon). Or the #2 driver is leading the last lap and he hits his magic button and black smoke comes out of the exhaust as the #1 driver inches by.
Gimme a break.
John, buying Michael out of his contract is one thing but getting Ferrari to go along might be a small problem.

[RichardB]

Am I in a minority of one, thinking that it is a really stupid idea for Porsche to become involved in F1? The potential for failure and humiliation is enormous - just look at how far off the pace Toyota is. Similarly, what benefit is Honda getting as an engine supplier. Ditto Renault or even Mercedes or BMW. Porsche have never been good at building open wheel cars and even with the best engine (assuming they can produce the best engine) they still need a good chassis. What experience do they have in F1 aerodynamics or software design - just thinking of two areas off the top of my head.

I want to see Porsche racing cars that look like production cars ie GT3, GT2 and Carrera GT. I don't even have any particular interest in them racing prototypes. Porsche of all manufacturers, with such a strong history of engineering, should realise that the trickle down from GT cars is more likely than from F1. Unfortunately, a recent visit to the factory and Weissach confirmed that Porsche don't have a lot of faith in the stability of any GT series in USA or Europe right now, hence one reason that they are looking at other options. I just hope that they stay out of the F1 circus.

BTW, when was the last time you saw a pass for the lead of an F1 race other than off the starting line or in the pits. That ain't racing.

ciao,
Richard

[dickster]

Their best bet for improving F1 would be to buy Michael Schumacher out of his Ferrari contract and give him opportunities for new challenges, either as a team owner or in a different arena, say NASCAR

lol, but i dont think that'd make all the difference. ferrari are too far advanced of everyone.

i also read about some other ideas being thrown about today.

1. drivers swapping cars throughout the season.

2. weight penalties for sucessful (winning cars). as used in other series i believe??

they've got to do something, its so damn boring at the mo, isn't it??

[nostatic]

It is obvious that the lads in charge need to rent "Rollerball" and watch it a few times. Add weight? How about some steel spikes!

[dickster]

lol

i had a scalextrix when i was a kid (still got!) and used to add selotape to the tyres, or lighter fluid to the track to make it more interesting..............

[scotsman60]

One of the most significant changes in F1 next year will be that only one car will be on the track at any one time during qualifying and each driver gets only one shot at qualifying. This means that drivers won't get baulked by slower cars while qualifying which is fairer but they also get only one chance for a quick lap. This makes it interesting - will the drivers be conservative and go for a reasonably quick time with little risk of scewing up (and setting a really bad time) or will they go balls to the wall and maybe end up making a mistake and qualifying lower down the grid?

I love F1 mostly for the technology, the size of the budgets and the speed of the cars but it's true that we don't see much wheel to wheel racing. Frank Williams said that the main reason we didn't see much racing in F1 is because the circuits are just to small and narrow for F1 cars. During WW2 the state of the art fighter plane was the Spitfire and it needed a cube of airspace measuring 10*10*10 miles to dogfight in. Todays fighter jets need a cube of airspace measuring 100*100*100 miles to dogfight in. If we gave the cars more space to race in the racing would be better. Racing on tracks designed 30 more years ago will not produce good racing for these cars - the straights aren't long enough and the tracks areb't wide enough at the corners.

Dropping Spa is revealing. Spa is a popular racing circuit - elevation chnages, different types of corners etc. and usually produces exciting races. What is revealing is that F1 voted against good racing in favor of tobacco dollars. Do they really care about exciting racing as long as someone pays the bills?




Doug

[David Bahr]

Hmmm... Porsche failures in open-wheel racing:
1. Formula 1 in early 1960s
2. Indycar in 1978
3. Indycar in early 1990s (I think)
4. Formula 1 in mid-1990s (I think)

Porsche successes in open-wheel racing:
1. Porsche/TAG turbo engine, mid 1980s, and that was just the engine

F1 is far more difficult than it has ever been and Porsche does not have the expertise in open-wheel aerodynamics. If they enter F1, they will flush many DM100,000,000s to embarass themselves, and by extension, us.

But, they might do it anyway. Porsche's marketing has always sucked:
1. Will we be able to sell enough 1973 Carrera RSs? Duh.
2. Can we sell a 1994 928 GTS for ~$90,000 with a plasticky interior from 1977? Duh.
3. Will it hurt our image if we try to compete with the Mercedes SL (automatic, chrome wheels, power tops)? Duh.
4. We need to move away from sports cars to luxury/GT cars. Wrong.
5. Our "customers" "demand" the luxo-goodies that make cars complicated, expensive and heavy. Wrong.
6. We can sell lots of Club Sport cars if we delete a bunch of options and jack up the price. Wrong.
7. Cayenne. Duh.

Over and over again, over the past fifty years, the most desired Porsches have always been the "sport" option cars: lighter, more powerful, faster, and even more so the models most closely related to their race cars. Today, knowledgeable purchasers pay big for 356 Carreras, Carrera RSs, former Porsche Cup cars, etc. Why, oh why, can't Porsche go back to building sports cars, and racing them?

Flame away!

[old_skul]

You forgot:

5. Michael Schumacher wins every race, even if other cars have to push his across the finish line first

[Tspringer]

Uhhhhhh instead of blaming "Big Tobacco" for Spa not being on next years calender, why dont you blame the Govt.'s involved for restricting companies freedom to advertise. It sucks that all F1 fans are made to suffer because some paranoid socialist countries in Europe want to dictate advertising rules and restrict the free markets.....

I woudnt bet on Porsche going into F1. I would actually bet strongly against it. When the Cayenne ends up flopping in the market, they will either consolidate after the loss or perhaps go after doing a 4 door sedan. The only racing I see the modern Porsche company doing is selling customer cars, and then only if its a profit center.

You want to really make F1 fun, competitive and a showcase of driver talent rather than a parade for Bernie?

1. Outlaw all traction control devices.
2. Outlaw all carbon fiber brake components.
3. Restrict airodynamic devices to a single element rear and front wing. No diffusers, no ground effects, just a single, simple wing front and rear.
4. Outlaw any electronic links between the car and the outside world during running. (radio is ok, no electronic link to car)
5. Allow real racing slicks, no more grooved tires. Increase the maximum allowed wheel/tire size by 2 inches front and rear.
6. Outlaw all semi-automatic and automatic gearboxes. Drivers must us a clutch and gear lever to choose and shift gears.
7. Raise the engine capacity limit to 4 liters.

Basically, take away the total emphasis on airodynamic grip and replace it with mechanical grip while removing all driver aids. Increase engine power and low speed grip. We would have 1000hp cars with bigger tires that required much more skill to drive on the edge.

Do all of this, and you would have very fast cars that were demanding to drive. Drivers would make mistakes, and the electronics wouldnt cover them up. People could pass. It would be the driver who won the race.... not the car.

I dont look on todays F1 stars and having anywhere near the guts and talent that was present in earlier generations. Give me a Ronnie Peterson over a Michael Shumacher any day.

Terry

[JSDSKI]

The best engineers and designers win in F1. It has always been that way. The most dominating teams have a driver/tech combo ala Chapman / Clark or Schumacher / Brawn. Clark was never known as a driver who liked to "mix it up", at least that was Surtees's opinion. He liked to get in front and out of the way.
Ronnie Peterson was incredibly talented, but Schumacher would beat him in the long run, like he has beaten so many others, not just on driving talent, ("he's so smooth he's spooky, according to Vic Elford) but on development and getting the most out of a car.

F1 has never been huge for passing - simply because the technical package, and the ability to wring the most out of it - outweighs pure driving talent. Once the car has been developed to the max for that day - it will only go so fast; ie "the limit" and no faster. Even better talent can't make a modern car overwhelm the G forces it produces or manipulates. That's why you usually see team cars side by side on the grid - and everyone following each other in the same order of qualifying. It's also why wet races are more interesting - the loss of friction tends to equalize the cars by reducing the mechanical advantage of the better cars and emphasizes driving talent.

Whew! I'm out of breath! Ok I'm off my soap box now...

If wet races equalizes the cars maybe we should have F1 on Ice!

[Fritz]

I started watching F1 back in the 70's.

It was so unique and different from the typical racing here in America I got a kick out of it. I've been to F1 races in Long Beach, Hockenheim and Indy but I really think it has lost a lot of it's romance. Some of the things that stood as differences from American racing were the following:

Qualifying: On the track with other cars. It was just unique and part of the spectacle. Who were the teams that could judge when the track was good or when traffic was clear. Senna was a master at getting a clear track at the last second. Of course, part of the spectacle was the complaints of being balked. Now of course you will hear complaints that they went late when the weather was bad or somebody oiled the track or too early and the track was green. What does this change improve??? I fail to see it.

Pits: Remember when the lawsuit-free europeans were in narrow pit lanes wearing shorts and golf shirts while cars were speeding through the pits at 100mph inches behind them. Looks just like a CART race to me now. Slow speeds in the pits, the whole team in firesuits. Limits on the # of men working on the car. F1 used to be about racing....now it is about pit rules.

Restrictions: F1 used to be about innovation. That is all becoming very limited. Restrictions are a fact of life for pure safety but it is how you do the limitations. I like some of the other ideas for slowing cars down....such as restrict tire size (but crikey, real race cars use slicks unless it is raining), restrict overall wing size, engine size. I believe the current rules are that all engines have to be v10's as well as the 3.5L limit. Remember when you had V8's, V10s and V12's on the track at the same time? Now that made it interesting. The V8's ran with less fuel because of mileage while the V12's burned more fuel but put out more power. There was a madness to team logic that is somehow missing.

Tracks: The tracks used to be unique and diferent. Some were high-speed, some were tight and twisty. Some turned right and some turned left and at least 1 was a figure 8. Some were classic courses such as Spa and Monza while some were temporary street circuits. They proved they could race anywhere. Bernie's cookie cutter tracks miss the whole point of W-O-R-L-D champion. They will soon be cookie cutter champions.

Teams: Underfunded teams came and went. They always have and always will. Now it seems like a team gets in the show and assumes it is their given right to participate and they will fight in court to be there. This is the most expensive and technologically advanced racing. If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Team Rules: How will this be enforced? Sort of like the traction control issue. Recently reinstated because it was impossible to enforce. Remember the famous words from Enzo when the teams met to consider a proposed restriction, Enzo said if you show me the part (or piece of technology that will enforce the rule) I will vote for it, but if you can't show me right now on this table then I must vote against your restriction. If you don't want team rules the only real way to accomplish this is to restrict entrants (teams) to one car.