Difficulty separating 911 SC engine from trans

[medarwin]

Hello,

Have a 1982 SC with oil leak at sensor behind FI. Dropping the engine to fix but I cannot get the engine to separate from the trans. I HAVE NOT removed the clutch arms as I cannot pry off after removing ring clip. Got advice from Pelican that it was not necessary to remove them on some models. I haven't pulled an engine in a while but didn't have any problems with the last one (87 930). The short answer is to pull the trans and engine but I am working alone without the possibility of help and the engine and trans together are an unwieldy package as I plan to do oil cooler seals, valve cover gaskets and oil return tubes. Would be a lot easier for me if I didn't have to pull the trans.

Must the clutch arms come off to separate on an 82? Anyone have any idea why I cannot pull the arms off?

All help and suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Darwin

[Tom '74 911]

Are you attempting to drop just the engine & leave the trans in the car? If that's the case, I'd suggest dropping them both together. It's not incrementally that much more work and in the end, it's easier IMHO...

CV joints, shift coupler, ground strap, speedo cable, clutch cable, starter "+" source and maybe something else I'm forgetting... not much additional disassembly and loads easier in the end...

[boyt911sc]

I am 75 years old and weighs almost 140 lbs. with my clothes on. I remove these engine and transmission combo by myself. Do yourself a favor and remove them together. Some people like John W. does it with the engine alone because he has the correct set up and he is good. I have a herniated disc and a bad left knee, yet I enjoy doing this task by myself (no available help available). It is not how hard you work but how smart you tackle the job.



If you don’t have a hydraulic lift, just be extra cautious working around the car during the removal. Don’t take unnecessary risk by working alone during the engine and transmission removal. Have at least someone around or someone could see or hear you. Better to err on the side of caution than regret later. Stay safe.

Tony

[rwest]

Darwin,

Here’s the little tool I used to get my arm off- it is sold by Snap-on to remove battery cables from the post, but fits perfect on the arm.

[proporsche]

Hi Darwin...looks like a mess.Do you have an impact hammer and air compressor at home? If yes that would then piece of cake to remove the little finger.You would use flat impact extension.In the same time you would put a big screwdriver while hitting the shaft with the air tool.
If not a lot of wd40 will help.Or,do you have a heater gun?It has been a while when was this apart.
i personally only remove the engine using regular floor jack.The trick is place it in correct place under the engine and once the engine is out it will stay in place on the jack no problem.It is perfectly balanced.

If you are using just the floor jack at home, remove the rear bumper.It is only 6 nuts + 2 screws and it comes of,that would give a plenty of room to pull the engine out.If you need some tutorial let me know i will write you some...

So tell us more what tools you have to help you more.

Ivan

[john walker's workshop]

So yes, the short arm has to come off for sure. If the long arm is frozen to the shaft, it needs to be off also, requiring some violence with an air hammer bit, angled from above, which isn't the easiest position to get into.

[medarwin]

Thanks for all the advice. I think I will just pull the whole mess out. My impact hammer crapped out a while back so I can't use that method. That way I don't have to worry about aligning anything on the way back in. Taking off the rear bumper seems like a good idea, I have a dolly on top of my 2 ton floor jack so might need the extra clearance.

One more question: the two wires that connect near the trans tail and run to the engine, pull the pins off or remove the nut?

Thanks,

Darwin

[proporsche]

those wires are your back up light ..no need to disconnect if you will be taking trany and engine out.Do not forget the ground strap at the trany and your heater boxes clamp to heat exchangers. And of course the shift linkage ,remove only the little Allen screw and those 2 speedo wire green and brown next to it in the tunnel.
Also disconnect the throttle linkage at the trany so it does not get tangled on your axle while removing back...even if you remove the trany and engine you will have a difficulties to separate if you not remove the little and larger clutch arms.So i suggest remove them prior ..really;-)it will be hard to work on the floor to get to it....use a heater ot torch to heat the arm....don`t worry there is nothing you can burn down-there...just be careful.......

Ivan

[997at]

I agree with all that has been said except that I think it is actually much easier to just remove the engine by itself. That way you don't have to disconnect the axles. It's very easy to connect the engine and tranny back together with the trans in the car once you have them lined up.
I also agree that it would probably be easier to get the clutch arm off while the engine is in the car. The little gear puller thingy from a post or two up might do the trick.

[john walker's workshop]

Originally Posted by proporsche

.even if you remove the trany and engine you will have a difficulties to separate if you not remove the little and larger clutch arms.So i suggest remove them prior ..really;-)it will be hard to work on the floor to get to it....use a heater ot torch to heat the arm....don`t worry there is nothing you can burn down-there...just be careful.......

Ivan

For sure!

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by 997at

I agree with all that has been said except that I think it is actually much easier to just remove the engine by itself. That way you don't have to disconnect the axles. It's very easy to connect the engine and tranny back together with the trans in the car once you have them lined up.
I also agree that it would probably be easier to get the clutch arm off while the engine is in the car. The little gear puller thingy from a post or two up might do the trick.

Darwin,

If you are the type of individual that enjoy frustration and hardships in doing something simple, follow the above advice. I would only recommend this procedure to a someone I am not very fond of. Specially doing it solo is something you have to seriously consider. If you find the engine separation in situ is difficult, wait till you put the engine back by yourself. The small arm or clutch positioning lever has to come out first to be able to separate the engine from transmission. Apply heat and use a wedge tool like a chisel to get it to slide. Good luck.

Tony

[pmax]

Originally Posted by proporsche

..really;-)it will be hard to work on the floor to get to it....

This.

You can't go wrong with Ivan and Mr Walker's advice.

[rwest]

I actually took mine off after the engine and transmission were out of the car- because I foolishly thought I could leave them on and still separate the two. Turned out to be pretty easy to work on as I had it nicely balanced on a motorcycle jack and just put another floor jack under the tranny mount.

Had plenty of working room although mine was not seized, so didn’t have to man handle it.

[911tracker85]

I actually took mine off after the engine and transmission were out of the car- because I foolishly thought I could leave them on and still separate the two.

LOL... so did I.


I had done a couple 944s, and in the procedure said you have to pull the pin on the shift fork to get off the bellhousing.

nothing said about pulling the omega sppring in the WSM for the 911. so I ask one of my 911 buddies if I had to pull that pin on a 911 gearbox too. they said no, but thought I knew to pull the omega spring/arm, but can then leave the pin in place.

I pulled on this gearbox for a couple days and sprayed a lot of PBlaster thinking maybe the shaft was stuck in the pilot bearing. popped off the omega spring and the gearbox came right off.

[medarwin]

OK, so I decided to take another whack at it as I just didn't see myself maneuvering the engine and trans together once I had it out. Plus past experience from my racing days told me that once I broke loose those allen screws from the cvs they would continually loosen up while driving unless wired.

Anyway, with some MAP gas and a lot of prying and banging on the small arm it slipped off. But now I can't seem to get the larger arm (throwout arm?)to drop. I couldn't slide the "omega" spring off but I was able to pivot the arm to release nearly all the tension on the spring (no idea how I am going to re-tension it but I'll worry about that later). The arm will still not drop. I read an earlier thread here where someone had one with a pin driven through it to hold the arm but that is not the case here.
First photo is the arm before I released the spring, 2nd is after. Arm is loose enough to move but won't drop. Open to suggestions, ideas, whatever. I've been stuck on this for 3 days and it's getting a little old.

I must be missing something but I cannot think of it or remember from the last time I did this.

[proporsche]

Put a large screwdriver over the arm where it is on the shaft.But!Use a copper hammer and hit it hard ,the shaft direction up......... you will make it like this...too bad you do not have the impact hammer ..with that it will be out in no time..after remove the bracket above the Omega spring off ,so you can get get to the 15mm-wrench- nut easier...

Ivan

move a little away that piece you under the cross pipe so you will have more room for the attack of the shaft with hammer..

[boyt911sc]

Darwin,

How did you release the tension on the clutch release lever? I use a large screw driver to release it.

If you could swing the clutch release lever arm now, you have successfully released it from tension from the omega helper spring. Normally the clutch release lever would slide down after the removal of the clutch positioning lever but in your case due to corrosion it is stuck. Swing the clutch release lever back and forth. Use penetrating oil or even heat. You will need about 30° to 45° swing of the clutch release lever to get the fork off the throw out bearing.

You should be ready now to drop the engine and transmission together. Do the transmission separation with the engine and transmission on the ground. Keep us posted.

Tony

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

I am 75 years old and weighs almost 140 lbs. with my clothes on. I remove these engine and transmission combo by myself. Do yourself a favor and remove them together. Some people like John W. does it with the engine alone because he has the correct set up and he is good. I have a herniated disc and a bad left knee, yet I enjoy doing this task by myself (no available help available). It is not how hard you work but how smart you tackle the job.

If you don’t have a hydraulic lift, just be extra cautious working around the car during the removal. Don’t take unnecessary risk by working alone during the engine and transmission removal. Have at least someone around or someone could see or hear you. Better to err on the side of caution than regret later. Stay safe.

Tony

Listen to Tony. The 911 engine and transmission are made to be removed so they can be worked on. It makes it so much easier. I use a motorcycle jack and ratchet straps with one person. I tried to do things with the engine and trans in situ, but it never worked. So much easier to just drop it all in one package.

[john walker's workshop]

If that arm is swinging free on the shaft, it can stay on.

[SCadaddle]

Fast forward to about 4:45 in this video. My local 911 Guru did something with a large screwdriver in levering and "flopping" the omega spring into the tension position on my 82SC when we were putting it back together. It happened so fast I can't recall what he did, but it just went to show that there is a really quick "trick" with this thing.