OT: What are your views on daytime running lights?
 

To start it off, I'm for them. I think that all new cars should come equiped with them and that they should become mandatory. I know that some of the highways in California have daytime running light zones and I will say, it makes a big difference. A car can blend in with the surroundings, but a light can't.

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Joshua Harrison
Porsche owner at heart

honestly, i think they are stupid.

Daytime running lights are mandatory in the province of Ontario (or maybe the whole of Canada)and I like them. It makes approaching cars much easier to see. I do a lot of travelling, and I notice a big difference when I'm somewhere that does not have madatory running lights.

I have one complaint, though. Most running lights turn on when the driver releases the hand brake, which is fine, but in some cars that also turns on the instrument back lighting. The result is that you see some cars driving at night with no tailights on (because the driver forgot to turn on the lights). My VW Golf's instrument back lighting stays off until the headlight/tail light switch is selected on, which prevents that problem.

And before anybody asks, no, the headlight bulbs seem to last just as long.

HATE 'EM! Just another example of big brother telling me he knows better than I. Like I don't know when to turn on the lights in order for others to see me. I won't consider buying a GM car these days...because of the DRL's alone.

They sure make it tough to get away clean after a late night burglery.

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blue
'81 SC Targa

Here's some food for thought: Airline pilots turn their landing lights on below ten thousand feet so they can be more easily seen in the congested airspace below that altitude.

I absolutely hate them. In my low slung 911 anybody following me has them blasting directly into my rear view mirrors so i have to turn my interiour mirror to the tinted mode and that way I can't see anybody else.

Also young boy racers with their hastily installed driving lights are often setup on "high beam".

Interesting topic. I guess in this day and age I'm in favour. So many dull coloured cars, bad driving, etc. It makes it clearer to see what's around. In the UK people put their *sidelights* (white smaller bulbs in the headlight) on in poor daytime visibility - but a lot of people don't - and it's not the law. In mainland Europe one sees it much more often; compulsory in a lot of Scandinavia, very common sight in our cars Homeland, Germany.
I don't get why US cars have orange *sidlights* opposed to white ones you can use instead of headlights during the daytime or poor d/t visibility. Anyone? That would be the more subtle option.

So do a lot of new US spec. cars come with d/t running lights always on?
If so, now I see why it's more of an issue.

They're too bright. The object is to be seen- not blind other drivers. If they were not as bright as headlights I would not hate them as much.

I usually turn on my headlights as I pass a car on an open, two-lane road. This helps a distant, oncoming car to better notice me. Otherwise, I keep the lights off, as I don’t want to be (ahem) "noticed" by a LEO (law enforcement officer).

[soapbox mode = ON]
Mandatory DRL are about as useful as a CHMSL (center high mounted stop lamp). If you are attentive enough to actually LOOK for a car or its brake lights, then DRLs or CHMSLs aren't necessary. Recall how collision rates dropped in 1985, when CHMSLs became mandatory? By 1990, when the "novetly" of the CHMSL wore off, collision rates were right back up there.
[soapbox mode = OFF]

I don't think our collision rates are up because we are used to CHMSL's: I think we have more stupid people on the road! I wonder if they have data on collision rates on cars equipped with the center-mounted stoplight vs. the ones without such equipment.

I think the CHMSL is one of the three best safety innovations for cars in the past 20 years (the other 2 being ABS/traction contol and airbags).

IMO, anything that helps others on the road notice me (or other cars) for a safety standpoint is a good thing. Therefore, I think DRL's are good. They do help get you noticed. (IF law enforcement is an issue for you, I suggest taking your speed to the track!)

However, for nighttime driving, I am working on replacing my headlights with STROBE LIGHTS: that way it looks like everyone else is standing still! (Just kidding! That's an old Steven Wright joke)

Just my $0.42.
-Z.

One problem with DRL's is that nearly all cars have them now - so an individual DRL-equipped car no longer stands out in a mass of traffic. Before DRL's, anybody driving in the daytime with lights on would draw attention (i.e "Hey, look at the idiot with the lights on!"). Now, they're not given a second glance. This is an argument made by many motorcyclists.

My argument is that if drivers are so inattentive as to not recognize a 6000 pound chunk of steel hurtling down the road at 60 MPH, taping a couple of flashlights to the front of that chunk of steel ain't gonna help much. We need smarter drivers, not smarter cars.

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1971 911T - 2.5L Big Bore

The Gray Wolf!
My Porsche Owners-Gallery Page!

Ah, but where do we draw the line with that logic? Will NHTSA prohibit dark colored cars, since they don't stand out as much? Will bumpers be required to have reflective strips of day-glow yellow covering 80% of their surface area?

Airbags, seat belts, padded dashboards, etc. are great. Such safety features protect the driver in an accident. CHMSLs, DRLs, and other "pay attention to me" devices have a temporary effect on the general driving population, and are merely a wet Band-Aid on the arterial bleeding we call a driver's education system here in the USA. Grrrrr!

Okay, breathe Robert...count to 10...that's better...blood pressure dropping...okay, I think I WILL have a drink now, honey.

I think they are a good idea. I do think that the best system is the type that is at low power during the daylight hours, then switches to regular power (full head and tail lights on) at night. I had a Grand Am that worked this way and I loved it (best part of the car). My new Audi does not have this feature, and I find myself turing on the headlight on long day trips now.



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Paul
1981 911SC/RS
2001 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro

Bottom Line.
It saves Lives,
maybe your kid's.

There were the same complaints about dtrl in Canada but they have been around since 1990 by legislation. They make a huge diffrence especially in dusk and dawn conditions, and just think they may have helped out james dean for one(have to relate back to porsches somehow).

[This message has been edited by sessa (edited 11-01-2001).]

I have seen people driving around with their daytimes during the evening. They really can't be seen from behind on a dark road while they think they have their night lights on.

I like DRL for other people, but not on my car. The wife has DRL on her GM car and that is very good in my opinion.

DRL are made for those idiots in dark cars that do not turn thier lights on at dusk and dawn... They are not to see, but to be seen.

Robert writ:
"By 1990, when the "novetly" of the CHMSL wore off, collision rates were right back up there."

I beleive that is wholey caused by cell phones. It amazes me how poorly people drive when on the phone, and then say they are driving perfectly fine. Ha!

There are more accidents caused by cell phones than drunk driving... I will take the beer over a phone call anyday http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif




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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

Two issues. One, there's a brief novelty effect to any changes. Accident rates go down (I'm told) when the power goes out and all traffic lights go to flashing red. Obviously, flashing red lights aren't safer, but it gets everybody thinking about what they're doing for a few moments. Third brake lights, daytime running lights, etc., seem to have a similar effect.

Now, on the one hand, you can point out that it's a temporary thing. But if it saves my life, could I complain about that? The problem is that driving is so routine -- and so dangerous -- that drivers inevitably get lazy -- and lethal. Big Brother issues aside, I'd say much more frequent, and intrusive, driving tests would probably have a more pronounced effect on safety. If we all had to work, really hard, to earn our next six month's driving priviledge, we might view it differently. As it is, anyone over 16 with a clue as to where to stick the key feels like they're entitled to unlimited doses of the driving experience.

The dangers, it seems to me, come from taking the act of driving for granted. People feel they can do it while they're talking on the phone, or after they've been drinking, or when they haven't had enough sleep. All of these things kill people, at a really staggering rate. If anything else we did as a culture killed 40,000 people a year, we'd make it illegal in a heartbeat. Imagine if air travel produced that many deaths. We'd make it a crime to even own the plans for an airplane.

The other, less serious, issue is the way the newer models of cars do all this stuff automatically. My 98 Jaguar turns the interior lights on when I disable the alarm. The interior lighting level changes when I opent the door, and it all switches off when I put the key in. At the same time, some sensor somewhere turns the headlights on when it gets dark enough. I never have to think about any of it.

This is all great, but -- inevitably -- I drive my other cars now with the lighs off half the time. Once you don't have to think about it, you tend not to.

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Jack Olsen
My Rennlist page • My Pelican Gallery page • My Porsche Owners Gallery page

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 11-01-2001).]

Nothing worse than driving in foul weather and being only barely able to make out the figure of a vehicle behind you. I always drive with my headlights on - rain or shine - it's a good habit which may have already saved my life for all I know.

In Canada all new cars must have them, but there's no laws against driving without them.

DRL really work on sunny days when you drive into dark area of shadow. If the other driver wears shades your lights are the only thing he can see http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...sun_smiley.gif

I have always driven with my headlights on at all times. I figure anything that might make someone notice me better is a good thing. There's just to many people who aren't paying attention when they drive, at least with my lights on I'm a little more obvious.

From the other side it's sure a lot easier to see and judge the distance to an oncoming car when their lights are on, there are just to many situations where bad light, glare or other obstructions to vision occur not to take all the help you can get.

As for it being forced on you by the car doing it, I see way to many people with older cars who don't turn their lights on in the evening until they can't see the road. At least if their DRL are on I can still see them coming.

Robert

MRDI - Oh, brother. Locking your kid in the house 'til he's 18 will also ensure 'safety'.
I suppose it's PC - "if you're against DRLs, you're against kids."

I have heard DRL provides greater visibility. Does that translate into greater safety? I haven't done the research. The 3rd tail light makes absolutely no sense to me unless the guy behind you has tunnel vision.
No airbags! Always use your belts, and use them correctly. LEARN TO DRIVE, TRUST ONLY YOURSELF, AND DRIVE DEFENSIVELY!!!

BTW - Do stock motorcycles have the DRL, or do bikers use their brights? Bikes always seem to have a light on - but ALWAYS WAY TOO BRIGHT!!!

Hmmmm..... Anything to help others see me... How about we all get red and blue strobes like cop cars? They are visible from such a long distance that the accident rate would surely fall to zero!

Ah, the cops would love that. After all, where's the best place to hide a tree?

Here in gloomy Seattle where my dark silver 911 blends in with the gloom on days like today....I think they are a good idea so the soccer moms in Suburbans on the cell phones dont run me over. In Arizona or Southern CA I would think differently.

I wonder if Big Brother will do a study on fatality rates for cars <u>without</u> DRL's. With everyone else driving around with their lights glaring, non-DRL equipped cars will be even harder to see!

I'm against mandatory running lights. Even with seatbelts, the option exists (and I go nowhere without them fastened). I would expect lights to be within my control also. Next they will add the loud beeping noise if you go above 65 mph.

They should focus on the people that don't use their lights at night. I see plenty of them out there.

"loud beeping noise above 65mph"

All the used Japanese imports coming into NZ make a binging sound above about 110kph. Most people disconnect it very quickly.

Cam

I think they are great (DRL and 3rd brake lights):
- I can see the idiots who wouldn't otherwise turn on their headlights when it is raining or snowing.
- I tend to look far ahead. I can often see that 3rd brake light though the interior of the car(s) in front of me giving me some advanced warning.
-Chris

But not on 911's okay?

Be Safe, Be Seen! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...sun_smiley.gif

I'm against kids, but not against DRLs. I've had two cars so equipped so far. No kids, though. Thanks, Trojan!

I think there's a lot of emotion in this thread directed at stupid drivers - and this makes sense. How this applies to DRLs I don't really know, but I guess I can see it. Look, DRLs are a good thing. It bothers you that "Big Brother" is telling you what to do as far as your lighting systems go? Well...

The NTSB and FAA govern a large portion of the operational procedures for flying an aircraft, privately or commercially, and you know what? The accident rates are substantially smaller in that form of transport. It doesn't hurt that pilots aren't flying around in Caravans dropping kids off at soccer practice while talking on the cell phone and putting on makeup, but that's beside the point.

(I'm sorry. Did I just mistakenly stereotype someone? Damn. I'll try to keep it down over here.)

Granted, pilots are better trained in their craft, but to be perfectly honest, state-enforced safety procedures make a difference. And people who are committed to safety in travel don't *mind* these procedures.

DRLs are a great idea. They make your car a tiny bit more visible during the day, and CMSLs do the same thing. Thank god for those, actually - sometimes, with an SUV in front of you, that's all you can see of the vehicle in front of them.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP
The Porsche Owners Gallery

How about forward motion beepers like some service trucks have when backing up? Or maybe even flashing lights on top of the car like emergency vehicles? Point is (as was mentioned before) once these things become common place they will tend to be ignored since everybody has them...sorta like crusin down the road and sayin Wow! there's a Mustang or Camaro...as opposed to my commute today....Hey that's a Testarossa! (Also had an earlier model Porsche beside me...(Of course I gave the driver a honk and a thumbs up!)

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Howie
79SC

I've got daytime running lights on my new GMC pickup and really like them. I'm a contractor and drive this truck around all day. It has definitely reduced one of my pet peeves; people pulling out in front of you from a side road when you are almost on top of them. That has definitely improved with the running lights. Probably saves their lives because if I T-bone a little tin box I beleive the results would be bad. Roy Eames

I agree with alot of you that dont like having to be told you have to use them. But on the otherhand, if you are completely honest, you have to admit that a vehicle that has Daytime running lights is alot more visible, we've all noticed them and thats the point of having them in the first place.

Michael Marshall

And also I think you need to know english to drive safely... Yah I know most things are color coded or generic symbols, but still important to be able to communicate.

How do some of the immigrant drivers get licenses? Is the driving test in 50 languages these days?

In my non-pc opinion I think it is necessary to be able to communicate with other drives in cases of emergency or collisions where information needs exchanged.

Then again I strongly believe in a national english language being enforced too. Hey, this is a melting pot go ahead and try to blend... Otherwise you get tossed out of the pot like a turd in the bathwater http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif



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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

I think many foreign speaking people, when in an accident, get a certain disease or phenomenon: the "no-speake-the-enlish" syndrome. They speak English perfectly fine, but figure it's better to pretend not to speak English and get away with crap! So they wack your beautiful p-car, and then give it the "I no speak..." verbage to confuse the issue. I hate people like that...

They know English: don't let them fool ya!
-Z.

At all times I drive with my lights on bright, fog lights on, and blow the horn continuously. So far I haven't been hit but some people keep pointing their fingers up in the air as I drive by...what does that mean??
http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pint1.gif


I got tired of wrapping the car in bubble wrap before going out......

LOL

Chris

The trick is to barely engage your emergency brake...one click or so. That shuts the DRLs off.