Picking up parts
 

14. I installed a chin spoiler to help with high-speed stability. I don't drive on the autobahn much in this car, and I don't usually seek vmax, but a little extra margin of safety is always a good thing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531559892.jpg

The paint shop is about a 3 hour drive (4 with construction and traffic), so when I drove up I had an urgent need for the bathroom. There is a disagreement here in Germany between the men who like to pee like men and those that would prefer they be more...tidy. Demure. Feminine. I'm glad to see the paint shop has found a compromise we can get behind! The translation is selbstverstandlich.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531559892.jpg

I don't ever want to do this job again. Based on the <a href="https://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/testing/">videos</a> and the <a href="https://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/finishes/">different characteristics</a> as described here, I chose the correction!! C-series Cerakote paints because of their high UV resistance and excellent hardness.

Unfortunately, all there is in C-series Cerakote is flat black (several of them, actually). The mavens at the Cerakote central office suggested using their satin clear over the top for a bit of glossiness on the parts that needed it, so that's what I did.

The Targa bar and engine grille got Armor Black (flat). Everything else got the Armor Black with the satin clear coat. Here's what the parts looked like.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531559892.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531559892.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531559892.jpg

I know the dust is distracting, especially to the OCD on our list (to include me) but this is the contrast I was looking for between the flat and satin. I wanted the badging to contrast with the flat on the bar, and it does.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531559892.jpg

Installing windshield trim
 

Stealing a tool idea from the board. I used the channel locks square against the trim to push it straight down, then pushed down on the outer lip of the trim with my thumb to get it to seat on the trim barb. Note that the window rubber has a will of its own without the trim...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531559892.jpg

... but shapes up with the trim installed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531559892.jpg

I slid the joining trim on to connect the two pieces as soon as I had the other half started. I figured that the less freedom of movement the trim halves had, the better chance I had to keep them in place.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531559892.jpg

Two improvements of Cerakote over powdercoating for this application: Cerakote is thin, so it doesn't change the fit of parts. Cerakote is hard, sliding the joint cover over the gap in the window trim produced no scratching, chipping or other ugliness.

My assistant in place to rope the windshield. We double-roped (which was a good thing) from the bottom (JW's advice on another thread). It took some back-and-forth, but eventually we got a solid seal all the way around.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531563644.jpg

The glass handles were of little use, as I didn't trust them. When I wanted to move the glass I was much more comfortable picking up the whole glass. Maybe they were too small for this application.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531563644.jpg

This is on the list for this winter but I have to admit that I'm rather anxious about getting the windshield back in. How hard would you rate this? Having help is always good. Did you use the OE seal or the URO?

David

I've read enough horror stories to not try anything but the Porsche seal, though URO has been active on the forum and has redesigned some parts (including the window seal), so they might be worth a try.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/998122-re-designed-new-uro-windshield-seal-review.html

I would say that the front windshield is not so bad. Even if you pull the ropes and are unsuccessful it's not difficult to push the window out and re-rope it. The more helpers to push on the window and the better the lubrication of the seal edge that has to slide over the metal flange to seat, the easier that good results come.

(Unbelievable! I pretend to be an expert now!)

That was the posting that convinced me to buy the URO seal.

David

I suspect that if you try it, run into trouble, and post on that thread that they'll step up and take care of you.

OK, so the back window was an absolute pig of a job. The seal is very stiff and uncooperative, and there are six dozen ways it can get away from you.

Remember, I have the Porsche seal and installed it on the glass some months ago. It doesn't seem to adjust to being stretched; it was just as anxious to misbehave as when I first put it on. Without tape on the seal, it slips off the vertical (targa hoop) side as well as the passenger rear corner. With tape on, you can't put in the trim or the wires or the rope.

Grumble. It didn't go easily. Grumble.

Things not to do:

• Put soap on the window to aid in getting the seal on. It aids just as much in getting the seal off, which it does just fine without your help.
• Put in the metal trim without measuring where to start from. I had to go back and re-insert the trim because I had a 5 cm gap in the back, and the cover is only 4 cm long. I suggest lots of pictures before disassembly.
• Put in the defroster wires before the trim. My wires tended to wander out of their channel and into the window channel, making the fit wrong.
• Use a soap/water mixture. Just use straight-up dishwashing liquid.
• Be in a hurry. It won't get you there faster, and certainly won't get you there cheaper.

There are lots of pieces to go together; what order makes sense? Here's how I'd do it next time:

1. maybe putting the rope in the seal first. That way, putting in the rope doesn't disturb the wires in their channel, the glass in its channel, or the trim in its channel.
2. Attach the defroster wires to the window. Don't stuff them yet.
3. Put the seal on the window to give it some structure and shape. Tape will likely be necessary to keep the corners (at a minimum)
4. Metal trim into its channel
5. Defroster wires into their channel
6. Install window in car

I slid a closed needle nose pliers in the channel to open it and followed with my thumb stuffing the rope in.

So here's the trim channel, sprayed with a dish soap/water mixture. Again, I'd go for straight soap in the future. Also notice the marked window center to help ensure I was in the right neighborhood when reinstalling.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531911943.jpg

Culling from previous Pelican threads, I used two protected-jaw pliers (old hose and electrical tape are your friends!) to simultaneously push the trim down (this is not a straight perpendicular push because of the shape of the seal) while stretching the outer edge out and up to catch the tang on the trim. Once the seal was over the tang, it didn't come off.

And if you're worried about damaging the seal, the Porsche seal is pretty stout. It will take the force you apply to it as long as you're gripping enough of it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531911943.jpg

You guys that talk about doing this bare-handed are my heroes.

Note how far forward the trim is in the seal. It's too far. Start over. Grumble some more.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531911943.jpg

Putting in the window was as difficult as I've read elsewhere; unfortunately there were no hands available to take pictures while we did it. It looks to me that the window is more forward than it should be, though the seal looks to be in about the same position as the one that came out. What do you think?

I did take a lot of gray plumber's putty (or German equivalent) out of this channel and replaced none of it. Was that a good choice?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531911943.jpg

If I were to do it again (please, dear God, no) I'd use the ratcheting strap method.

This anti-corrosion grease is all the rage here, so I put it between whatever parts were bolted together, to include threads, spoiler brackets, and such.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531911943.jpg

Then to the part we've all been waiting for.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1531911943.jpg

Still undone: the glazing compound, reinstallation of the rear interior. At this point, though, it's summer and I'm going to go for a drive.

Nice! Greetings from a fellow beer lover from Belgium :lol:

Greetings to you! We lived in Antwerp for several years when we taught at the international school. Wonderful place! Now we make cross-border raids from Germany.

Talk to me about window fit
 

After putting in the Targa window I was relieved to be done, but not quite comfortable that the window is in right. I was unable to tell after poring over page after page in the Ultimate Targa Thread, so I will ask directly: Does this seal look correct, or is the window in the wrong position?

Note that
- the rear edge of the seal kind of makes a ducktail, pointing upward
- the front edge of the seal is essentially horizontal at the bottom center
- the inside of the bottom center goes much higher on the window than the outside
- the seal does not cover the back ends of the two trim pieces under the Targa window

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1532869087.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1532869087.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1532869087.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1532869087.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1532869087.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1532869087.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1532869087.jpg

Does the window need to come out?

Is there a reliable way to get the window out while preserving the brand new seal?

If this is wrong, how do I avoid this mistake on the next try?

Don’t take it out. I did my seall recently and had one of the best auto glass guys in my city assist. I thought what you thought - that the window was too low. But after redoing it and looking carefully at this and other targas- the way you have it is correct. A place to be careful is the lower corner where the seal and the bar cover trim meet; you may need to slit the seal so that it doesn’t get stretched and tucked under when you mount the seal...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1532955920.jpg

Great work and thread, I keep dreaming it’s my own Targa getting the wonderful attention! Similar car though. Thanks for your great detail of your efforts!

Mike,

It can be your car getting all that attention. I didn't start out with much experience, just a willingness to try things, a neighbor that would help, and this forum to answer questions. You can do it!

How the experts do it
 

Here's what the rear Targa window seal looks like when it comes from Porsche Classic restorations:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1534024020.jpg

I spent the day walking around the Porsche area at the vintage races, and that's the only one I saw that looked anything like that. Original cars or re-worked.

The restorations manager told me that if the window doesn't go in perfectly, they cut the seal, take out the window, and reinstall it with another new seal. Easy, I suppose, if you're spending someone else's money on a six-figure restoration. The other alternative he mentioned was to use 4 or 5 experienced guys to push the window out, but even then you should expect to break the window.

He also said that the window seals are not as good as what they used to be due to the laws regarding what products are made from. The most restrictive environmental regime where the part is sold worldwide dictates what the part must be made from.

I think I'll be happy with where I am, window-wise. All that remains is the glazing compound.

Targa bar seal
 

RDM,

I've been to Ramstein AFB!


Curious which Targa bar seal you went with? Or did you salvage and use your old one? Wonder if you used a non-Porsche brand bar seal.
Interesting the trim in the Porsche Classic resto above is not black :eek:

I used the Porsche seal that I bought new from another Pelican on the parts board who decided against doing the job.

The Porsche Classic car above was a longhood, with all chrome trim. The trim in the picture is correct for that car.

It's interesting- if Porsche restores your car, you get a book of pictures of the process with the book cover done in your upholstery inside a body-color painted box. Cool idea, but sehr teuer!

>post 1200!<

Let's finally finish this job
 

Proper materials? Check!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1545996198.jpg

Proper tools? Check!

Proper attire (Pelican sourced)? Check!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1545996198.jpg

On good advice from the board, I snipped a minimal hole at the end of the applicator. I wanted a thin bead. I did a few test squeezes on a paper towel to get a feeling for the consistency and rate of application I wanted. Appearance is like cake frosting, viscosity is somewhat higher.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1545996198.jpg

I used a thin metal spatula to pry up the seal and get the applicator nose under. On painted surfaces, I covered the spatula with masking tape. This required the use of a third and fourth hand. Be sure they are available, or be more talented than me (admittedly a low bar).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1545996198.jpg

Once the applicator nose (does this have a real name?) was under the seal, it worked best to angle the caulking gun so the nose went first. This pushed the seal open, and the glazing compound provided lubrication to continue the under-seal slide. Since the glazing compound cartridge is not very stiff, it helped to use one hand to control the nose while the other hand pulled the caulking gun trigger to maintain pressure.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1545996198.jpg

Corners were more difficult, with the direction change and the seal being under more tension there. Also, I didn't want to have water accumulating in the corner.

I made a much bigger mess doing the back window. this should be no surprise as it's been uncooperative through this whole thread.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1545996198.jpg

I ran a bead on both the metal side and the glass side of the windshield, and on both the metal and glass side of the base of the Targa window (sides and top are under the Targa bar). It took about ⅔ of a tube, even with my extravagant excess.

Mineral spirits to clean up, and the water should stay on the outside until the seal fails. Figure another 38 years....

What a project! Looks like it's turning out great (hope I never need to remove my rear targa window...).

Probably too late to be of any help to you, but might help someone -

I was talking to a professional Porsche 911 restorer about the windows and he had a few good tid-bits of info about how he does it.

Rear window

- Only on a hot sunny day
- Four guys minimum
- Cotton clothes line (do not use polyester, nylon etc)
- Rubber seal on glass with trim installed
- four separate ropes, one on each corner, one top and one bottom
- Get the corners started first
- Plan on multiple attempts
- IIRC he charged $700, $1200 if you want the defrost working.

Front window
- We talked about how the corners are typically too loose. He said install the windshield and measure how much the corners need to move out. Take the windshield out and cut strips of tar soaked cotton clothes line and place them in the corner channel between the glass and the rubber, shimming the rubber out the correct dimension.

I might have to try the front window trick, mine are definitely loose.

Dru,

I will be tipping this
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546095715.jpg
tonight to share celebration of your great efforts! Prost and Zum Whol!

Thank you for your kind thoughts! I don't know that beer, but am willing to learn.