H4 lights

[69porsche]

I know this has been beating to death, but trying to find clarity on a few things...I have a 85-911 with sugar scoops. If I want to change to H4's would I need a conversion kit ($49.00 USD per our host) or would I have to go the several hundred dollar route per light....trying to understand the difference...one is a conversion, one is a upgrade, etc..There seems to be lights, lens, gaskets, trim rings, etc all that accompany the H4 just trying to see what I am missing if go that route and what parts, I need, what parts are nice to have and if I have sugar scoops the procedure.....I have seen the project on 101 things to do, but there seems to be a lot on the H4's...just need some clarity...Thanks

[Trackrash]

Ok, not sure about your terminology. But there are H-4 bulbs that replace your sealed beam bulbs. You still have the sugar scoops. Just way brighter lights. Probably the $49 option.

Sorry, but when I search for H -4s in the parts catalog I get only the headlight assemblys. Typical of Pelican parts catalog's pathetic search engine. Sorry for the rant...

The $600 units "headlight assemblys" replace your sugar scoops with the euro style headlights. BTW do a Google search as there used to be a version with chrome rims that cost less.... Just say'n.

[69porsche]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

Ok, not sure about your terminology. But there are H-4 bulbs that replace your sealed beam bulbs. You still have the sugar scoops. Just way brighter lights. Probably the $49 option.

Sorry, but when I search for H -4s in the parts catalog I get only the headlight assemblys. Typical of Pelican parts catalog's pathetic search engine. Sorry for the rant...

The $600 units "headlight assemblys" replace your sugar scoops with the euro style headlights. BTW do a Google search as there used to be a version with chrome rims that cost less.... Just say'n.

Gordon--Thanks, you cleared it up a bit...as you can see on the host site...it's a bit confusing at best! Thanks from another Gordon

[Canada Kev]

Both use H4 bulbs. People use and interchange the term "H4" for both the 7" sealed beam replacement lights and the Euro H4 lights. The thing is they actually are both H4s and that is where the confusion comes from.

The inexpensive 7" light looks pretty much the same as the sealed beam light and fits in the Sugar Scoop mount.

The expensive Euro H4 is the large light that completely replaces the whole Sugar Scoop assembly.

I think the Euro H4 give you better light over the Sugar Scoop H4. It's not a huge amount, but it's there. And in my opinion looks far better. Both are FAR better than any sealed beam light or even the later H5 lights that look similar to the Euro H4s.

[Nick Triesch]

What is wrong with sugar scoops?

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

What is wrong with sugar scoops?

Nothing if they have H4s in place of the sealed beams. Except the way they look if you're not a fan. If they still have sealed beams, the light, or lack thereof is an issue.

Some, like myself, prefer the Euro H4s, but appearance is so subjective. There are exceptions and I have seen a couple cars with sugar scoops that just look right to me. Like this one...

[964TargaC2]

I have a set of Black Sugar scoops with the Cibie H4 conversion bulbs that I am not going to use, if anyone is interested PM me and I will list them

These are the hard to find Cibie "sealed beam" US Legal as there was a glass capsule in the reflector that covered the bulb so no water could ruin the reflector

[HarryD]

If you go the route of the Hella H-4 which replaces the DOT Sealed beams, I suggest you get the E code ones with the Euro pattern. The only real difference between these and the Bosch Euro H-4 assembly is the appearance.

You need to decide if you want to keep the sugar scoops or go to the Euro look.

Euro ones can be seen here:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/91163111300.htm?pn=911-631-113-00-OEM&SVSVSI=911E

Hella H-4 replacement:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/70476.htm?pn=70476-M44&SVSVSI=911E

FWIW, I have the Hella H-4 units and they were a vast improvement over the DOT Sealed beams.

[69porsche]

Originally Posted by Canada Kev

Both use H4 bulbs. People use and interchange the term "H4" for both the 7" sealed beam replacement lights and the Euro H4 lights. The thing is they actually are both H4s and that is where the confusion comes from.

The inexpensive 7" light looks pretty much the same as the sealed beam light and fits in the Sugar Scoop mount.

The expensive Euro H4 is the large light that completely replaces the whole Sugar Scoop assembly.

I think the Euro H4 give you better light over the Sugar Scoop H4. It's not a huge amount, but it's there. And in my opinion looks far better. Both are FAR better than any sealed beam light or even the later H5 lights that look similar to the Euro H4s.

Good info, make it much easier to see the differences.

[69porsche]

Harry,
Thanks for the info....when you mention a vast improvement...I assume better light dispersion and higher intensity and more up to par with today's driving needs...correct?

[proporsche]

Hi Gordon
I have these US model H4 on mine...i like the style because every 911 has noadays the Euro H4...;-)

ivan

[69porsche]

Originally Posted by proporsche

Hi Gordon
I have these US model H4 on mine...i like the style because every 911 has noadays the Euro H4...;-)

ivan

Your car looks great....like you I like the sugar scoops...so my intention is to drop H4 lights/bulbs in my 85-911.....I don't drive that much at night, however I want an upgrade and like you I see a lot cars with the Euro H4's...to each their own...was it just relatively simple, my understanding it is.....my question to you since you are not changing the assembly but the bulb....Do you have to reaim/re adjust your lights ???

[Jack Stands]

Mostly it depends on which look you like! I switched from sugar scoops to the European look as I prefer it. Top photo is the Euro look (H5s look similar).

[proporsche]

Hi Gordon..Thanx....... for the lights,no adjustments needed,You just get the Original Hella H4 headlights.Then you put in the light bulbs .very easy mounting...
here is the Hella i have with H4 light bulb...

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by 69porsche

Harry,
Thanks for the info....when you mention a vast improvement...I assume better light dispersion and higher intensity and more up to par with today's driving needs...correct?

Actually the E Code lights put more of the light forward and on the road than the DOT pattern which is more of a "Ball of light".

[69porsche]

I just looked at my headlights....just a cursory look---it says Halogen on the glass lens, perhaps the previous owner did drop a set of H4 in there....I did not remove the lens and take anything apart--battling sickness here....Can we equate Halogen to H4 set up (be it Euro specs or otherwise)? or are they two separate and distinct things?
Thanks for your patience and contribution, I am learning a lot on this thread.

[darrin]

Originally Posted by 69porsche

Your car looks great....like you I like the sugar scoops...so my intention is to drop H4 lights/bulbs in my 85-911.....I don't drive that much at night, however I want an upgrade and like you I see a lot cars with the Euro H4's...to each their own...was it just relatively simple, my understanding it is.....my question to you since you are not changing the assembly but the bulb....Do you have to reaim/re adjust your lights ???

Like modern headlights, h4 headlights have a sharp upper cut-off that provides a much more focused beam than the "ball of light" thrown by your current DOT headlights. This makes them less forgiving aim-wise than old-style DOT headlights. Thus, it's important that you check/adjust/confirm their aim once installed -- pretty easy to do when it's dark out, find a wall at the end of a flat parking lot (etc.), mark the height of your headlights centerline on the wall (pull right up to the wall to do this) and then back up straight about 20 feet -- you'll see that the h4s' cutoff looks a bit like this _____/

keep track of whether the vertical end of the patterns moves left or right while you back up and re-center if/as necessary. Similarly, observe whether the horizontal cut-off moves up or down while you back up and adjust if/as necessary. This should give you a good baseline.

Also, makes sense to install a headlight relay while you're at it (as delivered, our 911s route all the headlights current through the turnsignal/high beam switch, this current creates heat that eventually melts/distorts the switch, causing your high beams to randomly flash -- not the best way to make friends on the road ) Our host sells a nice kit from J West that was developed specifically for our cars.

My sugar scoop H4 setup (I picked up some used cibie e code headlights for a song) completely transformed my nighttime driving

[darrin]

Originally Posted by 69porsche

I just looked at my headlights....just a cursory look---it says Halogen on the glass lens, perhaps the previous owner did drop a set of H4 in there....I did not remove the lens and take anything apart--battling sickness here....Can we equate Halogen to H4 set up (be it Euro specs or otherwise)? or are they two separate and distinct things?
Thanks for your patience and contribution, I am learning a lot on this thread.

No -- halogen refers to the material used in the filament creating the light. Euro H4 headlights will have an "e code" inscribed into the glass -- see, e.g. E-code Cibie Headlamps -- and, unlike DOT-spec halogen headlights, will have a replaceable bulb (size/style H4, hence the name).

Here's a link to a picture of a DOT halogen headlight -- https://www.amazon.com/SYLVANIA-Halogen-Sealed-Headlight-Contains/dp/B000BLMJMU

[RSBob]

Euro will give 0.5 MPH greater top speed due to aero quality. US create air pockets like little parachutes creating more drag. Besides US cars don’t have unlimited speed limits, except on the track.

Just made that up, but Euros do appear to be more aero. Would like to see a wind tunnel test.

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by darrin

No -- halogen refers to the material used in the filament creating the light. ]

Not to nit pick, but the halogen is the gas surrounding the filament.
Better explanation here:

A halogen lamp, also known as a tungsten halogen, quartz-halogen or quartz iodine lamp, is an incandescent lamp consisting of a tungsten filament sealed into a compact transparent envelope that is filled with a mixture of an inert gas and a small amount of a halogen such as iodine or bromine. The combination of the halogen gas and the tungsten filament produces a halogen cycle chemical reaction which redeposits evaporated tungsten to the filament, increasing its life and maintaining the clarity of the envelope. Because of this, a halogen lamp can be operated at a higher temperature than a standard gas-filled lamp of similar power and operating life, producing light of a higher luminous efficacy and color temperature. The small size of halogen lamps permits their use in compact optical systems for projectors and illumination