Engine removal: Watch out for _______!!!

[TedSlick]

Probably gonna take a leap of faith here soon and do an engine drop. First one, so I'm a bit nervous.

Doing lots of reading (incl. my new copy of "101 projects"), but I'm hoping some of you experienced guys could take a moment to mention known "pitfalls". Things you regretted doing, costly errors, something you'd do differently next time...

Thanks!...don't wanna jump the guardrail speeding around the learning curve


Oh, and if this has been covered, please advise.

[Zeke]

Buy the engine cradle for your jack from our host. You don't want that thing teetering all over on the jack.

[Wayne 962]

I believe that he means this tool here:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/ptoo/por_ptoo_miscel_main.htm

It is indeed quite useful, and it also works!

-Wayne

[Jim T]

I think there have been quite a few posts in the past, that you may be able to find with an archive search.

Rather than the details, I guess I'd give just one general piece of info: Don't be afraid of it! Its really a very basic concept: Disconnect everything that connects the engine (and trans, if you are doing that too, you don't have to, but many find it easier, esp. the first time. I personally would leave the trans in the car if you don't need the trans out, but I've done it before) to the car, remove the four bolts holding the engine/trans in and lower it down!

The tool that PP sells is a beauty, no doubt would make it a lot easier. But with two people, its easy to do using a floor jack and some wood. Done it tons of times. Even done it myself with just a floor jack, by myself (although I'd not recommend that! That can get a little hairy).

Just make sure you have everything disconnected. It helps to have a helper observe while you are lowering it to make sure nothing is still attached.

I suppose its good to tag everything that you disconnect. A good idea, but I've not found it necessary because I don't think there are any connection that you can reconnect in the wrong spot. They are all unique. You can only forget to connect something, not connect something to the wrong part. (But tagging is a good idea, you should do it).

So, don't be nervous and have fun. Its a lot easier than you think. When it comes down to it, there are actually not a lot of things you need to disconnet.

[GB83SC]

I had the same fear when I did my first drop. Rule one is go slow print out the removal tech article and check as you go.
Have a freind help two is better the first time. Have a cart ready to put the motor on. Double check and do not use a cheap floor jack/stands if you don't have a good set rent one. Take your time is the most important rule.
GB83SC

[BK911]

The biggest PITA is trying to disconnect something from the engine/tranny after all the mounts have been removed. Check and double check all connections are disconnected BEFORE the jack goes under the engine.

[Rick Lee]

I too have this job coming up and share the same fears. I was toying with getting an engine cradle for my jack stand. But I heard it does not work for Carreras without a sump plate. From the photo, it looks like the cradle goes just under the sump plate. So what do I do, since I have no sump plate on my Carrera?

[BK911]

Use a piece of plywood for the HX's to rest on.

[Dantilla]

There are a couple of fuel and/or electrical things in the back of the engine that were easier to disconnect after the engine was dropped a few inches. Take it slow.

[Jim Sims]

Drop the engine and transmission together as a unit. Disconnect the inboard CV joints, cover them with plastic bags to keep dirt out of the grease in the joints and then tie the axles up out of the way with rope (loop rope over top of rear shock mounts). Make a check list of everything to be disconnected and mark and label as you disconnect; here's a start:

If possible work with engine cool.
Disconnect battery in front of car.
Put transmission in first gear.
Drain engine oil sump and oil tank.
Chock front wheels, jack up rear of car and put on jack stands (place stands under torsion bar mounts).

Front of transmission:
Check transmission mount screws (the screws that engage into the sockets in body) to ensure they will loosen - only break them free.
Shift coupler and boot.
Electronic speedometer wires and boot or speedometer drive cable and boot on earlier cars.
Throttle linkage.
Transmission to body ground strap.
Strap holding clutch cable away from throttle linkage bell crank.
Disconnect big power lead from starter.
Remove rear anti-sway bar.

Mid-way along transmission:
Disconnect inboard cv joints.
Disconnect fabric hot air hoses from top of heater boxes.
Disconnect clutch cable at arm.

Lower passenger side of engine:
Soft "S" oil hose between engine mounted oil cooler and oil tank (be ready for oil).
Oil line from hard oil line to tank or to thermostat mounted at front of right rear wheelwell depending upon whether you have an external oil cooler or not (be ready for oil).

Upper passenger side of engine:
Two breather hoses to oil tank.
Loosen drive belt and remove A/C compressor (do not disconnect Freon lines) and place on a towel on right fender.
Remove air cleaner cover and filter.

Upper driver's side of engine:
Remove air pump and associated brackets (leave bracket on chain case); loosen ignition coil bracket.
Disconnect one or two breather hoses.
Remove heater booster blower plastic duct (not all years have this).
Disconnect two fuel lines (let car stand over night to lose fuel pressure and be ready to catch gasoline).
Remove electrical chassis cover and disconnect 14-pin connector and connector to CDI unit.
There may be one or two other small electrical connectors on the left side to disconnect depending upon the year of the car.

Reposition car, jack stands and floor jack as required for engine lowering.

There may be more but that's a start.

[rob911]

As mentioned, print out the engine drop project, and tick off each item as you do them. follow all the good advice on this board.

Get a Bentley manaul if you want to continue working on your 3.2, the 101 book is all SC based. However the pictures and practical advise in 101 is far superior.

Some hints from my first engine drop two weeks ago.

1. Build a dolly to drop the engine with, you will need to make a cradle to support the crankcases, unless you are CERTAIN your heat exchangers are up to the job, mild steel ones might be corroded from the inside. This will allow you to drop the engine and gearbox alone if need be, I did my first one solo.

2. Loosen gearbox mount bolts before starting - I had to "pop out" and buy a 36" breaker bar during my drop.

3. When removing the gearbox, completely remove the grub screw (using 4mm allen key) which secures the shift coupler to the gearbox input shaft. Then select 2nd or 4th to disengage the coupler from the gearbox.

4. Don't worry - lot's of people have succeeded, so will you.

Rob

[dad911]

Make sure you have the correct oil line wrenches ahead of time. No fun trying to find large metric wrenches on a Sunday afternoon.

[TedSlick]

Guys, approximately how much does the 3.2L engine weigh? How about engine + trans.?
Reason I ask, I saw this 'Craftsman' device advertised (pic), lifts 1500lbs. If I pre-build some sort of cradle, do you think it might work?

I do have a heavy duty hydraulic jack, but I've always been leary of lowering things having only the control of the imprecise pressure release valve. Seems like one would want more incremental "control" of the downward motion, similar to the upward motion. Especially if you're going to stop part-way and detach certain items.

BTW, these are great tips and checklists! All will be taken into consideration. No horror stories as yet (like having an engine come crashing down or something being damaged or engine goes rolling down the driveway), so that's good. Sounds like everyone's had trouble-free experiences.

rob 911, the Bentley 'Service Manual '84-'89' arrived just yesterday

[Jim Sims]

Oh, there have been dropped engines, broken fingers, etc. People just don't like to talk about them. Go slowly, plan ahead, keep your members out of pinch points and if you're unsure stop, check your references and ask questions. Be careful. Remember gravity is always on. Cheers, Jim

[pbs911]

Ted, A couple posters have used a similar lift with success. With a 1500 lb rating, you will not overload it with the motor and tranny.

[ChrisBennet]

I wrap a bungee cord around the axle and banana arm to pull the CV's forward. This gets them out of the way of the throttle linkage (mostly) on one side and the starter on the other side.

I like to disconnect the throttle wire/linkage at the transmission. It is less likely to get bent that way in case it hits the CV joint as the engine is lowered.

Cover orifices with aluminum foil or caps. I found two cashew halves in an uncovered vacuum line once (no, I don't have kids)and I saw a bee fly into one of the little sunroof drain holes in the body just above the engine compartment (blew him out with compressed air unharmed). Bizarre but true.
-Chris

[Wrecked944]

TedSlick raises an important point for those of us novices contemplating dropping our engines: Is there a consensus on what the best tool or combo is for the job? Is it Pelican's "Engine/Tranny" adapter attached (somehow) to a standard hydraulic floor jack? Is there a "home grown" McGyver device that works best? That Craftsman thing looks slick (and inexpensive)...Is there a good way to "attach" the engine and tranny to such a device so it doesn't fall off during transport? Bungees? It is a scary thing for first timers...

Thanks,

[Carrera Charlie]

I am in the middle of my first engine rebuild and I used the same style of lift (from Costco with parrallel paddles) to lower my engine ... it worked great!

If you use this style lift, make sure you leave about four inches of paddle showing behind the engine ... I did not and the geometry of the mechanism caused the case to contact the hydraulic ram on descent. I had to "walk" the engine down the paddles (rocking a Porsche engine in mid-air was a scary proposition!) while sliding it down the ram. I didn't anticipate the arc that the mechanism followed. With the proper positioning, it will be a piece of cake!

By the way, a couple 2x4s lying transverse (across the paddles) under the heat exchangers worked just fine (I have SSI exchangers - nice and strong).

Regards,

[dad911]

I use the costco version of the above also. Makes one person removal easy, the only thing I don't like about it is there is a foot lever to release jack pressure & it drops too fast if not careful. I put a piece of scrap plywood across the exchangers & transmission to make balancing easier.

[pnzr911]

I dropped my again last month (engine still out ) with a heavy duty Cosco jack and a cheap Home Depot furniture cart that I added casters to. The back of the engine rests on the jack and the front (clutch side) rests on the cart. The engine rests on its risers and no problems. I will be putting it back in the car in the next couple of weeks. For advice I would say beware the Snowball effect!! My engine drop began as a $300 chain tensioner upgrade and snoballed into a full engine drop and $2,300 of "while I have the engine out" projects!!!