Suspension, are shocks blown?

[ricklopez1]

Hello fellow Pelicans,

I have a 79 911. It has new tires 225 in the front and 245 in the rear. Car has not had a proper alignment done. Since I purchased them a couple months the back. I purchased the car back in October and due to too a bunch of overdue maintenance issues. I now finally have it in running order. Here is my dilemma. I drove the car earlier this week. The front end dropped and it caused the fenders to rub against my front tire. The car has not been lowered. I had to turn the bolts to to raise the front end. I've attached photos. One showing what the height is when the car is cold. Which is high and another after a 20 min drive which is low. The car suspension drops when driving and after parking the car for a while it returns to the high position.

I havent looked at the torsion bars but is the fluctuations in height due to blown shocks?

My car front end is very rough when driving. Kinda feels like a cheap go kart. Jarring and no dampening.

Financially I have other priorities so a full ER street suspension is not in the cards. However if I were to spend 1k in parts would that be enough to get the car in working order. I don't ever plan on racing or AX and aside from the occasional on ramp punch. I drive the car like an old man. I just want to look nice, I want it lowered and handle for t to handle well.




Any suggestions would be helpful.


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[old man neri]

Something going on there.

Your tires shouldn't rub ever really. Unless they are the wrong size/offset for the front. Someone more knowledgeable should answer that.

As for parking the car and having it return to a raised height...that's a new one for me. I suppose it's possible if the shock allows compression but has a blockage that doesn't allow return. You could always jack the front of the car, undo the top shock bolt and try to manually compress it and see if it returns at all to it's extended height. I'm really guessing here.

Hopefully someone else chimes in.

[john walker's workshop]

Should be 6" rims in front. Bilstein inserts can leak into the strut and eventually the rubber snubber gets chewed up like a frog in a blender. The rubber particles can bind the insert in the strut's upper bushings. Might want to pull the inserts and see. It obviously is not the torsion bar because it responds to adjustment.

[Flojo]

I recommend 205-55 front and at that stance a camber of -1,4 and rolling the lip slightly.

your 225 and camber at front are bad combination.

[ricklopez1]

I have 7" front and 8" rear. I plan on rolling the fenders. I know plenty of people run this set up without issues.


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[Flojo]

I do have the same rim/stance setup. I recognized the 7s front immediately.
this is why I recommend you to ditch the 225s front and take 205.
225s front are really good only for turbo- or ST-fenders.

check the camber as well.

[Canada Kev]

Even 205/55-16s can sometimes rub on the front of some cars (the ones I had did and had to roll fender lips), so I second the 225s being too wide on Fuchs 7" wheels. And the factory setup for 16" diameter wheels was 6" for the front. Your 7 and 8 inch wheels are fine, but most can't run that tire size up front unless they're on 944 turbo offset 8" Fuchs.

[ricklopez1]

Got tires are too wide. Any ideas as to why front suspension is dtopping? Going to pull the front shocks to look at.

Will new shocks fix this issue?


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[Flojo]

Originally Posted by ricklopez1

Will new shocks fix this issue?

no

you have a tire-width-stance-camber issue

[ricklopez1]

Originally Posted by Flojo

no

So is it the inserts causing the drop?


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[ricklopez1]

I understand that the tires maybe to big. My question is why does my suspension drop when driving and then when parked raises. Is this with Porsche cars? when driving the front end feels like is bottoms out.

replacing the front tires wont fix the suspension issue.

[75 911s]

It's a combination of both. As John mentioned you should have a look. Any receipts for new inserts or are they the original 79 shocks? They are probably spongy. When you brake, the weight gets shifted and you are running a big tire so you bottom out. You can see where the inner fender is bent and cuts on the tire from the lip.

As Flo mentioned that tire is too wide for the front on a stock flare. Most of us run a 205 on a 7" wheel up front.

[john walker's workshop]

Did you read my last post? #3.

[75 911s]

I mean you can do a simple test, just bounce the front end carefully with your hand. How does it feel?

[Canada Kev]

I agree that the excessive tire width shouldn't lower the car temporarily.

Generally, shocks will not raise a car as they are not the things that support its weight - that's the torsion bar's job. However, as someone mentioned, perhaps during a drive the damper was compressed but something is limiting its rebound somehow, whether binding or whatever - see John's suggestion. That would restrict its rise back up to a static height. And you didn't mention it, but I assume it's not just one side that is exhibiting this issue and that it's more or less even.

Also, I believe that with the Bilstein's gas pressurization, they will to some small degree support the weight of the car. This can be seen on cars with no other changes other than moving to new Bilsteins from some unpressurized dampers, the car's ride height will increase. But if that were the case, the car wouldn't be low after a drive and only return to higher levels after a rest, but maintain its extra height all the time.

[ricklopez1]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

Should be 6" rims in front. Bilstein inserts can leak into the strut and eventually the rubber snubber gets chewed up like a frog in a blender. The rubber particles can bind the insert in the strut's upper bushings. Might want to pull the inserts and see. It obviously is not the torsion bar because it responds to adjustment.

Going to take out the shocks and look at the inserts. If they are bad will it require a new shock or can I buy the insert separately?

This is all new to me. I appreciate the help


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[john walker's workshop]

The insert is the shock.

[Bill Verburg]

The chassis didn't droop, the tires moved up and down due to road irregularities, this movement is normal

The combination of tire width, height and wheel width and ET is the root cause of the issue.

a couple of things that you can do to alleviate and possibly rectify the situation, in no particular order
1) raise the car a bit
2) run more negative camber in front
3) use a tire shorter than a 225/50 x16, ie 225/45 x16 or use a tire that is narrower ie 205/55 or one that is both shorter and narrower ie 205/50 x16
4) shave the lip off, it gives you more room and less for the tire to grab onto

[Trackrash]

John's comment in #3 sounds plausible.

You CAN run 225s on 7" Fuchs in the front, HOWEVER, it may not be worth the trouble for a street car.

You FIRST need to make sure EVERYTHING on the front suspension is up to snuff.

You need to make sure the strut inserts, ball joints, all rubber bushings, and wheel bearings are perfect. You will at least have to remove the upper strut mounts to inspect the strut inserts.

In order to successfully run 225s on the front, once everything is mechanically in order, you will need to roll the fender lips and run more negative camber.

IF you are planning on doing any work on the car yourself you should invest in a REPAIR MANUAL. 911s are simple and easy to work on. Problem is they are UNIQUE in design.

[john walker's workshop]

A tip on strut insert removal. Complete one side at a time so you don't have to fight sway bar tension. A whole lot more effort to reassemble if both sides are dropped together.