77 Suspension Refresh, have some questions

[ADDvanced]

Hi, I have a 77 911S. I'm installing new torsion bars (21/27) and some bilsteins, and I purchased a used rear swaybar to install. Here are my questions, it would be awesome if someone could help me out.

1. The Porsche Projects book says I need to remove the caliper and disc in order to remove the spring plate. It says remove the two 19mm bolts holding the caliper on. I removed the top one, but the bottom one doesn't really have access. I can't fit a socket on it, the swingarm/suspension arm is in the way. A wrench doesn't really fit either because the hard brake line is in the way. I have no idea how to get this one out.

Edit: Wound up leaving the disc/caliper on, used two 19mm wrenches and a mini sledge to remove the upper control arm bolt without hurting the hardline for the caliper.

2. Do I need to remove the caster/camber adjustment bolts in order to remove the swingarm? It seems like I need to remove them but I don't want to totally bork how it's setup right now, either. ???

Edit: I removed them, the book said you didn't need to but whatever, you do.

3. The four bolts holding on the torsion bar cover; the torsion bar cover itself has a flange which prevents my sockets from fitting on the bolts. What should I do? Just smash them on with a hammer and deform the flange on the cover???

Edit: I just smashed the socket on, worked fine

4. I purchased a used rear swaybar but it seems incompatible with my suspension arms. In the Porsche Projects book it shows the swaybar bolting onto the suspension arm; I have these spherical looking knobs, not bolts, on the suspension arms. What the heck? Can I even use the swaybar I purchased? How do I attach it to the arms?

5. Where is a good place for the jackstands in front? I'm used to using the torsion bar covers, is there another place that is nice to use while replacing the front torsion bars?

6. What is unique about the front spindles regarding shocks? I purchased bilsteins for the front but from what I've been reading I need specific uprights? Why? Can I modify mine to accept the bilsteins?

Sorry for all the dumb questions, thanks in advance!



Edit: Both spring plates are off now, but holy crap my torsion bars are not budging. Sprayed with penetrant and will try again in a bit.

[Driven97]

Wait, why are you removing the swingarm? To change the rear torsion bar you only need to pull the spring plate. To do this you remove the camber/caster bolts, the two that bolt the spring plate to the trailing arm near the rear caliper, and the 4 bolts on the spring plate cover. You also have to remove the side skirts to give you room to pull the bars.

For the front there is more than one kind of spindle that came on the car, depending on option. Inverted Bilsteins are significantly different than the other options, as the whole shock gets mounted upside down in the housing.

I don't understand your swaybar question without photos.

[911 SLANT]

Where to start. If you have Bilstein struts they should drop in. If you have Boge you have to buy the right shock insert and nut. Your sway bar sounds like it's for a later year car. You can buy drop links that bolt to you spring plate to make that sway work. On your torsion covers I bent the lip just enough to get socket on bolt with a screw driver. The caliper bolt is tight on space. Should be able to get off with the right tool.

[edjrbashian]

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/991704-ball-pin-trailing-arm-sway-bar-options.html

Check out the thread I started about the 74-77 trailing arms. Depending on what sway bar you have you can either bolt directly to the spring plate or use a combination of your existing sway bar hardware and an adjustable endlink. Good luck!

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by Driven97

Wait, why are you removing the swingarm? To change the rear torsion bar you only need to pull the spring plate. To do this you remove the camber/caster bolts, the two that bolt the spring plate to the trailing arm near the rear caliper, and the 4 bolts on the spring plate cover. You also have to remove the side skirts to give you room to pull the bars.

For the front there is more than one kind of spindle that came on the car, depending on option. Inverted Bilsteins are significantly different than the other options, as the whole shock gets mounted upside down in the housing.

I don't understand your swaybar question without photos.

Sorry, spring plate. It's off. Torsion bars won't budge. Sprayed down with penetrant, will come try again later. Can I heat these up with a torch?

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by edjrbashian

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/991704-ball-pin-trailing-arm-sway-bar-options.html

Check out the thread I started about the 74-77 trailing arms. Depending on what sway bar you have you can either bolt directly to the spring plate or use a combination of your existing sway bar hardware and an adjustable endlink. Good luck!

I have the older style trailing arms with what looks to be a brass, maybe, spherical round ball/cone type setup on it. Are you stating that if I build an adaptor like the one shown at the bottom of that thread, and then sourced the original endlinks meant for these trailing arms, it would work?

Thanks!

[Knockdown]

Rear torsion bars can be a real pain to get out, keep wiggling and pulling, with penetrating oil. If you are not trying to save the old torsion bars, sometime a vice grip and some leverage helps. Once you get on out, you can use a long mop handle to knock the other one out.

Check out these drop links from Tarett if you have a 78+ rear swat bar.
http://www.tarett.com/items/911-products/911-suspension/911-swaybars~drop-links/911-rear-droplink-set-65-89-with-78-89-factory-swaybar-911rdlnk-detail.htm

[911 SLANT]

Yes, it's a cheaper way to go,but will work with stock drop link.

[edjrbashian]

Do you have this sort of setup on your car now? The adapters on the last post are meant for using '78 onwards stock sway bars on a 74-77 trailing arm.


The main difference between the 74-77 and later 78- onwards trailing arm is the ball pin (#7) on the diagram. The 78 onwards allow for adjustable endlink to to bolted right in to the trailing arm which makes it easier to use aftermarket sway bars.

I chose to go with the original setup for now so I sourced the original parts from a forum member. It might be helpful to share what sway bar you bought that way we can help give you advice on how to mount it.

[Driven97]

Originally Posted by cash68

Sorry, spring plate. It's off. Torsion bars won't budge. Sprayed down with penetrant, will come try again later. Can I heat these up with a torch?

Likely no, the part where they are stuck is in the middle of the torsion tube. So hearing from the end won't be so that useful, also that'll expand the bar which is the opposite of what you want. Can't heat the middle of the torsion tube because it's likely got a layer of undercoat on it that's real flammable.

I think I wrapped my bar with a rag, put a pair of vice grips on it, then used a prybar between the vice grips and body of the car. Should slide them right out.

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by Knockdown

Rear torsion bars can be a real pain to get out, keep wiggling and pulling, with penetrating oil. If you are not trying to save the old torsion bars, sometime a vice grip and some leverage helps. Once you get on out, you can use a long mop handle to knock the other one out.

Check out these drop links from Tarett if you have a 78+ rear swat bar.
Porsche 911 Rear Droplink Set, 65-89 with 78-89 factory Swaybar

I don't think those will work with my swing arms, will they? Again, I have a spherical ball mount thing on my swing arms, NOT a bolt hole.

Thanks for the advice!

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by edjrbashian

Do you have this sort of setup on your car now? The adapters on the last post are meant for using '78 onwards stock sway bars on a 74-77 trailing arm.


The main difference between the 74-77 and later 78- onwards trailing arm is the ball pin (#7) on the diagram. The 78 onwards allow for adjustable endlink to to bolted right in to the trailing arm which makes it easier to use aftermarket sway bars.

I chose to go with the original setup for now so I sourced the original parts from a forum member. It might be helpful to share what sway bar you bought that way we can help give you advice on how to mount it.

I don't have a rear bar on my car at all right now, that's what I'm trying to remedy, but yeah, my trailing arms have that spherical #7 mount like in your photo.

My sway bar has regular endlinks so it must be from an SC or 78+.

I'll see if I can find some pre 78 end links for my swaybar. Thanks for your help!

[mreid]

Good advice above. I rebuilt front and rear adding raised spindles in front and coil overs all around on my 1975. Are you replacing the crappy sway bar frame mounts on the rear with a beefy aftermarket version like Wevo? Highly recommended if you do any kind of even light performance driving. Those cheap stamped oem mounts will tear right off the frame.

[Knockdown]

I think the Tarett drop links replace the toe eccentric in the spring plate and the other end attaches to a 78+ sway bar.

Like this but this is a Tarett sway bar....

[ADDvanced]

Does anyone know where to source that 19mm 'valve guide blank'? I'd like to order one to make this swaybar work with my car. It's shown here:

Dieter's Repair Service : 911 Rear Sway Bar Swap

[HaroldMHedge]

Since you are upgrading the torsion bars, I would replace the rubber suspension bushings as well. When I installed 21/27 torsion bars I used Elephant Racing rubber parts for all of the suspension bushings.

When my mechanic replaced the bushing he decided not to replace the trailing arm bushings since they looked good. What a mistake, several weeks later I was back into the rear suspension since the heavier torsion bars had worn out the old bushings.

[ADDvanced]

I ordered sway away spring plates with bushings.

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

Does anyone know where to source that 19mm 'valve guide blank'? I'd like to order one to make this swaybar work with my car. It's shown here:

Dieter's Repair Service : 911 Rear Sway Bar Swap

Bump for this.

[ADDvanced]

Still looking for that 'valve guide blank'.

Also, I did a thing! I present to you my custom torsion bar removal tool!




My torsion bars were refusing to vacate the torsion tube, I tried heat, wiggling, just nothing was working. Went to auto parts store, rented a slide hammer, then hit up Menards and found a few adaptors/parts in the plumbing section that threaded onto the slide hammer, and a piece that was large enough to go over the head of the torsion bar. Threw a few holes in that, tapped the holes for some bolts, viola!



Worked ace, torsion bar popped out in 20 seconds.

[mreid]

That is fantastic, well done!