911 Targa Top wind noise

[JoeJoet]

I have had all new rubber installed and the top has been recovered. 87 911. Mint no rust and 70k miles. There seems to be no adjusting for wind noise. The top just doesn't have a smooth transition from the frame to the roof in the front. It's consistent all the way across the frame. Are there different rubber gaskets? The one on my car just won't compress any more. The care definitely doesn't leak (but it really doesn't see much rain driving and hardly goes anywhere when its cloudy). Any thoughts I'm sure the step up from the frame to the top is the cause. Thanks in advance.

[sixbanger]

I think you have to do some trimming on them. Where did you get the seals?

[Jdub]

First off, the rubber seal does require trimming, and for your year you may need the rubber seal that is NLA, but is available from Cars Inc. Perform a search on the board for more information.

[rwest]

The factory superseded the old seal to the latest version and it is too thick. There is a guy who had the old style remade and that is what you probably need.

carsincnj.com is the site.

[rwest]

Link

CARS INC - Vintage And Hard To Find Porsche Everything. Targa Top Restoration, Vintage Parts And Classic Porsches

[RSTarga]

Doesn't an 87 use the new seal?

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

Doesn't an 87 use the new seal?

No the Porsche provided seal is for a 964.

[DRACO A5OG]

Post a pic of your front seat, with and with top off.

I bet it is sitting high.

Which "rubber did you get", Dan sells the proper seals for the 3.2 Targa.

Originally Posted by JoeJoet

I have had all new rubber installed and the top has been recovered. 87 911. Mint no rust and 70k miles. There seems to be no adjusting for wind noise. The top just doesn't have a smooth transition from the frame to the roof in the front. It's consistent all the way across the frame. Are there different rubber gaskets? The one on my car just won't compress any more. The care definitely doesn't leak (but it really doesn't see much rain driving and hardly goes anywhere when its cloudy). Any thoughts I'm sure the step up from the frame to the top is the cause. Thanks in advance.

[JoeJoet]

The gasket was purchased from Pelican. Any advice on the trimming process? Should the gasket be removed and trimmed on the underside?

[gwinnch]

This may be of help: Link to drop box file of my factory targa roof repair booklet
let me know if the link doesn't get you there
https://www.dropbox.com/s/851581jeno5npfi/0180-Targa_roof_repairs%20bulletin_smaller%20%281%29.pd f?dl=0

[DRACO A5OG]

Thanks, that is what I needed to see.

No offense to anyone or pro-wrench or our host.

1st, that plastic filler in front of the seal needs to be pulled out. Frankly, it is a weak attempt to tighten the sealing surface to the top. IT DOES NOT WORK, ask me how I know.

2nd, We all love Wayne but I am not sure if the seal he is offering is the actual re-production of the proper NON-964 seal or not. To be safe, order the proper seal from Dan at Carsinc.

3rd, I can already tell the rubber is sitting too high. I bet when you replace the rubber you will find someone had used filler to raise the rubber thinking it would make a tight seal, WRONG, this only lifts the top at front and at speed the air pressure compounds the problem and allows air to go under the front lip of the top ergo WIND NOISE.

You see, the lip of the top is suppose to tuck in behind the windshield channel, this is how the wind is eliminated. With rubber sitting like that and that silly plastic strip the top will not do it's job as designed by Dr F. Porsche.

Here is how the top is supposed to sit:



To test what I wrote, place blue tape along the front seam and take a drive.

Originally Posted by JoeJoet

The gasket was purchased from Pelican. Any advice on the trimming process? Should the gasket be removed and trimmed on the underside?

[HarryD]

Pelican lists two seals:
A genuine Porsche one Part #: 901-565-099-40-OEM; and
and a URO one Part #: 901-565-099-40-M253.

Which one did you get?

The genuine Porsche seal will not fit your car properly as it is a 964 seal. If you got the aftermarket one, contact Pelican to verify that it is the Petchel Seal.

If you have the Porsche Seal, it can be trimmed. Dan Petchel used to send instructions on how.

If you have the Petchel seal, it needs to installed in a clean channel with no supplemental sealing materials that cause it to not lay correctly.

[ROW911SC]

I went through this on my '81; the Porsche seal did not fit at all. Dan's was perfect...

[universeman]

Also if you install it yourself, take care and time to seat it properly, don't just jam it in. Clean the channel first etc. Has to be a precision fit to keep the wind noise out, trust me on that. Good luck!

[Otter74]

Can the Porsche seal be trimmed after it is installed? That is, removed, trimmed, and re-installed?

[RSTarga]

If it has not been glued. I got one out mostly intact by using a nylon spudger. I could never cut out just the right amount and ended up using Dan's seal. It worked right out of the box.
Here are Dan's instructions on cutting the OEM seal;

Targa Seal tech article Windshield Frame A Pillar Seal problem

A problem has developed for Targa owners from an unusual source. Somewhere during the last few years, when ordering a new replacement front windshield frame pillar seal, one receives a superseded seal. Problem folks, these superseded seals just don't fit 89 and older Targa's. The proper part number is no longer obtainable. Old part #911 565 090 47 now superseded #911 799 565 80. You may, in fact, get the proper part # on the package but the seal will be the superseded one. I have been told that the official response to this situation is that the new seal will require cutting and shaping to get the proper fit. Since where to cut and shape has been a mystery, the choice has been either to retain your old seal or live with an ill-fitting top.
The difficulty with the new seal is varies from 2mm to 4mm too deep across the whole top and 4 mm too wide at the corners. This results in the seal not fitting far enough down into the body groove, thus the seal seats up too high and the top rides on top of the seal. Roller latches on tops from 86-89 can be adjusted but this is a Band-Aid fix because wind noise will result. There is no such luck for 69-85 cars. Damage usually occurs to the latch by forcing the top to fit. It would seem that the second rule of carpentry applied when the seal was made, " cut it big and kick it into place".
Now the fix: What needs to be done is the removal of material from the seal so that it will slip unimpeded into the channel. Material needs to be not only removed from the sides but also from the bottom of the seal, as mentioned. The best approach I have found for removing material from the seal is to use a thin blade razor knife and saw it off.
Side of seal material removal: Remove 2 mm on each side of the seal downward and inward 3 ¼"from the 90-degree bend. The proper width should be 10mm. New seals are 14 mm at this spot. Seal taper out to the regular thickness the last ½" or so. This includes removal of material from the large triangular corner knob. It needs to be shaved on the sides by 2mm to 3mm wherever it touches the V metal corner channel.
Bottom of seal material removal: The underside material of the seal needs material removed by 2mm to 3mm in the same corner area. In my modifications, I have removed material 2mm from entire windshield length with good results.
Test fit: You can test your work as you go along by periodically testing top for fit. The seal should not be forcing the top upward during these fittings. The seal dry should be just a tad loose for when you apply glue in the channel for installation. This space will be accounted for. I feel in order to get the seals bottomed out, it is best to install the seals with glue only in the channel and install the seal wet before the glue sets up. Until this seal situation is resolved with the proper sized one, this is our best chance of getting our Targa top to fit correctly.

Dan is owner of Cars Inc. of NJ. He is along time PCA member with a business of Restoring Targa Tops and Selling Vintage Parts. website carsinc-nj.com 609 298 2277

[JoeJoet]

Ok, so I read through all the responses everyone supplied regarding the wind noise and the ability to correct with the seal I had purchased was just not possible. So I contacted Dan at Carsinc. I purchased his seal and followed his instructions. With the new seal, and the removal of the thin filler bead mentioned in one of the replies. The top now sits down in line with the roof as it should. It's probably too late to try to get a rebate on the replacement gasket(seal) I got from Pelican but the problem is solved. If anyone has a problem with their Targa top, or I'm guessing their cab top....I urge you to call Dan. He knows his stuff. He's in Bordentown NJ. Thanks all for the help

[DRACO A5OG]

outstanding!

[rokemester]

Originally Posted by gwinnch

This may be of help: Link to drop box file of my factory targa roof repair booklet
let me know if the link doesn't get you there
https://www.dropbox.com/s/851581jeno5npfi/0180-Targa_roof_repairs%20bulletin_smaller%20%281%29.pd f?dl=0

Thanks for sharing this manual excerpt on Targa roof and body seals. Helpful!

[gwinnch]

You're welcome!