Starting a 1986 911 after sitting for 15 years.

[jmsnyder]

Hello! I'm new to the forum! I recently came across a 1986 911 Targa with only 35,000 miles. The previous owner bought it in 1990 and hardly ever dove it. One day in the summer of 2003, the car wouldn't go into reverse, he couldn't back it out of his garage, and the car sat there ever since. My plans for this car are to restore it back to exactly as it left the factory. The car is in incredible shape but has the usual 80's accessories like a cheesy security system, hard wired radar detector, and worst of all an aftermarket sound system... I have a ton of experience with 80s BMWs but my Porsche experience is limited to a 944 I had a few years back. The first thing I want to do is get the car running. I did hook up a fresh battery, remove the fuse for the fuel pump, and turn the key to on to see how much fuel was in the tank. Of course it's got nearly a full tank of 15 year old fuel. Also when I hooked up the battery the aftermarket alarm immediately began to go off. I cut the wire to the siren but the alarm still goes off any time the car has power. My plan was to remove the alarm system, drain the fuel, replace the fuel filter, blow all of the old fuel out of the lines, add some fresh gas and give it a go. Of course I'll spin the engine a few rotations by hand ahead of time just to make sure everything is good internally. Is there anything else I'm missing? Should I worry about the injectors? I don't want to take any chances with this car given its immaculate condition and low millage. There is a budget for this car but I'm not afraid to spend money for the right parts or for precautionary maintenance. Any and all advice is appreciated!

[Flojo]

Welcome and great find!

Reverse non-engaging solved?
Maybe the coupler is worn, so it lacks the last mm to engage?

[darrin]

I'd change out the oil, transmission gear oil and brake fluid too

[DRACO A5OG]

Put fuel stabilizer in her or better yet dump the old fuel

[jmsnyder]

Originally Posted by Flojo

Welcome and great find!

Reverse non-engaging solved?
Maybe the coupler is worn, so it lacks the last mm to engage?

Thanks! It seems to go into all gears fine without the engine running. I'll have to see if that changes with the engine running. I also need to try having someone push the car while I have the car in gear with my foot on the clutch to make sure the clutch and linkage are functioning properly.

Originally Posted by darrin

I'd change out the oil, transmission gear oil and brake fluid too

That's all part of the plan. The brake lines look good but the rubber brake hoses have some dry rot so I've ordered new ones for all four corners.

[ab1752]

With 15 year old fuel you're going to need to look at the entire fuel system but don't overlook the fuel lines. There is an awesome resource for all new lines on Pelican who goes by BoxterGT and Len can sort you out. It will likely be easier than trying to flush the old lines, plus those lines are 34 years old.

[darrin]

Originally Posted by ab1752

With 15 year old fuel you're going to need to look at the entire fuel system but don't overlook the fuel lines. There is an awesome resource for all new lines on Pelican who goes by BoxterGT and Len can sort you out. It will likely be easier than trying to flush the old lines, plus those lines are 34 years old.

Great point, also important for the OP to know that these lines are prone to dry rot / leakage when under pressure -- keep a close eye for fuel leaks when starting

[Trackrash]

Agree with above, if it were me, I would replace every fluid and any rubber fuel and brake hoses. Those old rubber fuel lines may look OK today, but next week when one cracks and your car catches on fire, not worth taking the risk. AHIK.

Probably should remove the injectors, have them cleaned and tested, and clean out the fuel rails. I have seen Carreras get clogged injectors after sitting for a season.

[RedCoupe]

Welcome to the 86 Targa club! My Grand Prix white 86 is the "Negative" of yours!



I heartedly agree with the suggestions of replacing fuel lines and changing all fluids. Consider that our 1986's are the last year of the Porsche-designed model 915 transmission. So, when you change the transmission oil, be sure to use a GL5 non-synthetic gear oil. The synchronizers are very different in these transmissions than those in the later Getrag G50 transmissions, and the transmission experts on this forum say that Synthetic gear oil is just too slippery for the synchronizers in the 915. My 1986 has almost 160,000 miles on its original gearbox and still shifts very acceptably. I use the Kendall gear oil that I bought from Pelican Parts. Regular gear oil changes seem to really promote good shifting, as well.

Anyway, enjoy your tremendous car. Were having some great not-too-hot weather here in northern Arizona, so my 1986 has been driven all over the place on this holiday weekend!

[Knockdown]

I wouldn’t try starting it up until I had verified that the system, cold and warm fuel pressures were in spec after cleaning up the fuel system. A lean condition can cause backfires that can damage an old CIS air box.

[adias]

Originally Posted by ab1752

With 15 year old fuel you're going to need to look at the entire fuel system but don't overlook the fuel lines. There is an awesome resource for all new lines on Pelican who goes by BoxterGT and Len can sort you out. It will likely be easier than trying to flush the old lines, plus those lines are 34 years old.

Fuel lines replacement is a must do.

[darrin]

Originally Posted by Knockdown

I wouldn’t try starting it up until I had verified that the system, cold and warm fuel pressures were in spec after cleaning up the fuel system. A lean condition can cause backfires that can damage an old CIS air box.

Knockdown, OP's '86 carrera doesn't have an airbox and uses the successor motronic engine management system, so no risk of blowing up the airbox. That said, with fuel sitting in system for so long (and presumably w/o stabil, etc.), makes a lot of sense to refresh fuel system and check pressures.

[jlex]

My '88 with 36,000 miles sat for a long time before I had it towed home to work on it. Please don't try to start it... you'll push a lot of crud thru the fuel system and screw up the injectors. I pulled the sending unit on my gas tank after draining it of all fuel ( I still have 10 gal of stinky gas I don't know what to do with) You'll want to look into the tank to see if it's coated with rust. Mine was so bad, the inner walls were like corn flakes. The local radiator guy said to fix it, he'd have to cut the tank in half, sand blast it, then weld it back up. Hardly worth the effort. I bought a new tank.
Also replaced the injectors, although that may not have been necessary.
Once you've sorted out the tank and supplied it with fresh fuel, jumper the fuel pump to purge the system. This should minimize crap flowing into the injectors. Also, before you start the car, change the oil, then disconnect the coil and crank the engine. When the oil pressure light goes out, then reconnect the coil and try to start the engine. May take a quick shot of ether to get it going, but don't overdue the starting fluid.
I'll post a list of what I had to do to get my 36000 mi '88 in shape. May give you some ideas. Replaced the 3 fuel hoses in the engine compartment just 2 weeks ago, so I've just about got it sorted out... Have fun.

[Bob Kontak]

I am big on two things after 15 years.

1st, Fuel. Clean out the skanky fuel from your tank.

Change the screen filter and whatever. Replace fuel filter in engine bay.

2nd, pull plugs and crank engine until oil pressure builds.

The rest of the stuff should be ok for the short term, like fuel lines.

[sugarwood]

That's a heck of a detailing job you did there.
Can you tell us more about that?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by RedCoupe

God bestows favors on those that keep their sugar scoops.

[Mark Salvetti]

Originally Posted by jlex

My '88 with 36,000 miles sat for a long time before I had it towed home to work on it. Please don't try to start it... you'll push a lot of crud thru the fuel system and screw up the injectors. I pulled the sending unit on my gas tank after draining it of all fuel ( I still have 10 gal of stinky gas I don't know what to do with) You'll want to look into the tank to see if it's coated with rust. Mine was so bad, the inner walls were like corn flakes. The local radiator guy said to fix it, he'd have to cut the tank in half, sand blast it, then weld it back up. Hardly worth the effort. I bought a new tank.
Also replaced the injectors, although that may not have been necessary.
Once you've sorted out the tank and supplied it with fresh fuel, jumper the fuel pump to purge the system. This should minimize crap flowing into the injectors. Also, before you start the car, change the oil, then disconnect the coil and crank the engine. When the oil pressure light goes out, then reconnect the coil and try to start the engine. May take a quick shot of ether to get it going, but don't overdue the starting fluid.
I'll post a list of what I had to do to get my 36000 mi '88 in shape. May give you some ideas. Replaced the 3 fuel hoses in the engine compartment just 2 weeks ago, so I've just about got it sorted out... Have fun.

The fuel tank might be OK. Full tank, likely non-ethanol, and a garage are all positives. My tank was fine after 20 years of garaged storage.

Pulling the sender is the way to go. Easy to shine a light in there to see how things look, and the easiest way to siphon out the old fuel.

If things look clean, you might be able add fresh fuel and then run the fuel pump to flush the lines, letting the old fuel in the lines circulate back to the tank where it should be fine diluting into the fresh fuel. I would change the fuel filter and disable the injectors first.

Someone with a Carrera needs to chime in whether this is a good idea or not....

Mark

[jmsnyder]

Thanks for all the input, I had planned on replacing all the fuel lines eventually anyway so I mind as well do them now. I have a fuel filter and tank screen on the way along with a ton of other general parts for the car.

I seem to have a knack for finding low millage 70s and 80s German barn find cars; Recently I've been working on a 1981 BMW 635csi that my friend and I pulled out of a barn. It had been sitting for 17 years (with a 1/4 tank of gas). The fuel system in that was a complete nightmare. I flushed the tank, changed the filter, blew out the lines serviced/cleaned the injectors and it still wouldn't run right. Didn't realize until the tank began to leak that the inside of the tank was completely destroyed. The car is a euro-spec e12-based e24 and therefore a replacement tank was not a possibility. I paid the local radiator shop a lot of money and they were able to fix it after convincing them I really had no other choice. Did the filter, lines, and injectors again and now it runs great. I'm trying to avoid that whole situation by doing this right the first time so, rest assured, I'll be making sure that tank is perfect inside before the fuel pump ever sees power.

I ordered Red Line GL5 gear oil but I'll throw that on the shelf and order some non-synthetic for the gearbox. What's the reason for non-syn in the gearbox? I know in my daily driver, which is a mint 1998 540i 6-speed, the previous owner used Royal Purple gear oil and it completely trashed the brass synchros. Not because it was synthetic, but because one of the additives, can't remember which, likes to eat brass.

Originally Posted by sugarwood

That's a heck of a detailing job you did there.
Can you tell us more about that?

The picture makes it look better than it is. I could tell the paint already had swirls in it from being dried by a towel in the past so I just hosed it off and used an old fashion car wash brush to get the grime off. It could use a good buff job and then the paint should be damn near perfect.

[larrym]

expect the injectors to be "stuck" - "varnished" with old fuel - mine had 3 that would not inject and the ngine would start but immediately quit - look for my posts on that subject

if you have an injector actuating tool such as my "injecter inspector" it will tell the tale quickly

[HarryD]

Nice!

Read posts 20 and 21 of this thread. Ignore Grady at your own risk.

Winter storage checklist?