Triangle of death for wimps

[jackportia]

Oil pressure switch leaking on my '86 Carrera (I think). From what I have read about the triangle, the recommendations are, while in there, replace breather cover gasket, o-ring, oil cooler seals and the switch. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in my abilities and am looking for a step by step instruction to remove the air filter housing, right side intake, fuel rail and injectors etc. instructions I have been unable to find.
My Bentley or 101 Repairs does not offer a detailed approach. If anyone in the community has experience in the process for access and repair it would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jack

[whiz05403]

While ur there, the thermostat O-ring.

[steely]

The oil seals task is a bigger job and not part of the triangle.
Once you get the intakes off, you can hit the triangle.
research the oil thermostat a bit, there is an orange and a green o ring available - I forget which is better.

The "WYIT" or while you're in there in this case would be the intake header gaskets and isolators/insulators, any rubber vacuum or breather lines you can reach, and the rubber connecting the two intake halves.

if you want to go bonkers, do the top deck fuel lines and send the injectors out for testing/cleaning.
I did not do an engine drop - not even a partial drop to access this. if you want to do this, then tackle the oil cooler o-rings.

I did find excessive oil residue in the intake from a PO boo boo, so I cleaned that out too.
I will look to see if I wrote anything up.

[steely]

found it.
missing section is for my alternator, and I was replacing fuel lines too so disregard/ tailor for you...

Fuel line replacement / instructions to get to the fuel lines. Borrowed from a pelican and expounded upon. 12/31/08
19. Disconnect the battery.
20. Place battery on charger.
21. Remove airbox cover(snorkel), and filter.
22. Remove the 10mm nuts that hold airbox to the intake runners. 1 is on the INSIDE of the AirBox. The other is on the outside. When I tried to remove it, it unscrewed from the manifold! Also removed the 2x Philips screws that retain the vacuum line guide to the rear of the air box. I also removed the ~1/2” vacuum line by pulling it off from the airbox rear (in this case, rear = the side toward the firewall.)
23. Remove 10mm nut from the air flow meter (AFM) manifold bracket. I did the bottom and the top, and took a pic when it was removed. The bracket was loose.
24. Unplug the AFM wiring harness. (easy – pull firmly – ignore retaining wire)
25. Unscrew clamp that holds AFM to black rubber intake boot.
26. Remove AFM and airbox as one unit (don’t have to remove airbox from AFM).
27. Block intake boot with a clean cloth (old T-shirt, or shop rags).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
28. Unscrew clamp to heat exchanger tube (next to the dizzy cap).
29. Remove two 8mm bolts (one in front, one behind) holding heat tube to blower motor.
30. Remove heat tube.
31. Remove four 10mm bolts that hold blower shroud in place (this is the black plastic piece that usually has the shell sticker on it). I only found 3!. You will need to remove the dizzy cap to gain access to the lower bolt. You don’t have to remove the wires though, just the cap. It may also make things easier if you remove the ground cables that attach to the manifold as well (one 10mm bolt). Nah!
32. Unplug wiring harness/plug from the blower motor.
33. Remove three 10mm nuts holding the blower motor in place.
34. Slide blower motor and shroud out (as one unit) out from under the cruise control cable (if applicable). I did them separately.
35. I want to remove the intakes at this pernt.
36. Loosen the driver’s side fitting of the fuel line (19mm open-end/fitting wrench). This is where patience, persistence, a good work light, and that inspection mirror come into play (for me this was the most difficult step, for both removal and re-installation)! First find a short(er) 19mm wrench. Next, prop up the light and mirror so that you can clearly see the fitting, but keep them out of the way. Now coming from the left, simply find your way to the fitting, and get a good seat on it with the wrench. Now pull the wrench towards you to loosen it up. Just be aware that it is on there pretty tight, so watch your fingers/knuckles. You will probably need a couple turns with the wrench before being able to use your fingers too.
37. Loosen the passenger’s side fitting of the fuel line. This is MUCH easier, and you have quite a bit of room to work with. Basically, the same routine as above, except this time remember to push the wrench to loosen instead of pull!
38. Cut any zip-ties that hold the fuel line to the wiring harness.
39. Gently pry the fuel hose from the center bracket from the bottom, using a long small flat screwdriver or other tool of choice.
40. Slide the fuel line out, feeding it to the right through the opening where the airbox sits. Be careful not to knock the vacuum line off that runs to the back of the rubber intake boot.

Took a break until 2/15/2009
Here is what I actually did to remove the intake manifold and get to the fuel line….
RIGHT SIDE 2/15/2009
41. Remove the ground lug from the left intake manifold drivers side.
42. Remove the electrical connections to the injectors (right side only for now)
43. Cut any zip-ties that hold the fuel line to the wiring harness.
44. Loosen the AC compressor bolts (3) to permit fwd movement of the compressor which allows access to the right side forward intake manifold flange Allen nut.
45. Undo the fwd and rear fuel lines
46. Remove the Allen nuts on the intake – remove the washers too.
47. Undo the center rubber band clamps between the L & R intake manifold under the throttle body.
48. Loosen the fuel rail ( I didn’t do this)
49. Do I have to undo some kind of clip between the injectors and the rail? Not yet
50. Remove R manifold body – stuff cloth in port holes Intake ports
51. Clean inside of intake manifold
LEFT SIDE 2/17/2009
52. Undo the zip-ties
53. Remove the electrical connections to the injectors (left side now)
54. Undo center 8 or 10 mm nut attaching fuel line located under throttle body.
55. Un-do the front fuel line next to the drain.
56. Remove the cruise control 3x screws
57. Remove the cruise control able (pinch and push back the black cable retainer gizmo in the center of the cruise control.
58. Un-do 2x cable clamps for the power lines that run over top of the left manifold brace or frame. One nut / clamp is on the left fuel rail and the other is on the manifold frame,
59. Remove the connector retainer from the ganged connector block on the LR of the intake manifold.
60. Remove 2x air lines behind throttle body and air box (90 degree black elbow)
61. Remove the air box (90 degree elbow) – this allows you to get to another tubing line in the rear that has a screw clamp in the way.
62. Remove the bracket that was holding the ganged 3 x connectors too.
63. Disconnect the vacuum line near the vicinity of the cruise control. It seems to be ganged at the rear of the left manifold intake – I saw a reference to undoing this, so what the hell.
64. Disconnect the fuel line tat the top of the fuel filter.
65. Disconnect the fuel line where it connects from the fuel tank line to the left rear fuel runner frame leading to the regulator?
66. I undid the 3x pairs of Allen nuts on the 3 stacks of the manifold.
67. Undid the cable connector on the round black thing next to the throttle
68. Undid the metal cable clamp holding down the test port (a small capped plug) beneath the throttle body.
69. Remove or detach the throttle linkage between the throttle body and the bell crank. I did this by slipping a screwdriver between the ball and socket at the bell crank end of the linkage. The linkage end at the top on the throttle body itself was difficult to pull back and clear the post it was on, even after removing the small retaining c-clip.
70. Undo a small zip tie holding the electrical cable in the back of the L manifold from some vacuum lines.
71. Undo the vacuum line (remove it from a supporting vertical strut / clip in the middle center rear.
72. There appears to be a vertical support upon which is clamped the main metal fuel line. BUGGER!! This strut has a 4 mm x 3 inches(!?) socket head cap screw on the reverse side that needs to be loosened to free up the main fuel line.
73. Loosened up the Left intake manifold – I tried to feed the electrical harnii thru the manifold, but they wanted to come with, so watch out, all of the wire come along for the ride, so you have to DISCONNECT the engine compartment connector on the front (back?) deck near the left shock absorber strut.
Dis-assembly completed

[steely]

just saw your PM in parallel.
ping folks here or me if you need help.
read the info to get comfy with the approach.
order your parts.
when you start, stash and label parts in bags or something so they aren't mixed.
take pix during to help yourself. (IOW, be anal but have fun)

on the oil cooler o-rings - certainly do it if it is leaking, but I don't have experience there (yet)
and remind me what posting of mine that you saw if you get a chance.
Let me know if you need/want the parts list of stuf I bought.

HTH

[jackportia]

Thanks Dan. Your response gives me a great road map. The whole process sounds like a chore, but has to be done.

[GregT2000]

I just did this on my 89 3.2 (oil pressure switch, thermo o-ring, breather cover gasket, and breather hoses).

I did this with
- no engine drop
- only the airbox and MAF removed (which was pretty simple).

- the switch and o-ring are easy. Key point--very little torque necessary (6ft-lbs)
- removing the breather cover, from an access pov, was the hardest.

[GregT2000]

Some other tips.
-jack up the rear of the car...makes it so much easier on your back while you're squeezing your head into the engine compartment
- good, movable magnetic lighting is a must
- I removed the failing engine compartment pad. Once that was out and all the remnants vacuumed out, there was a lot more room and access to the front of the engine.

[86 911 Targa]

Cover the intake with a rag to prevent anything from falling into the engine,

[jackportia]

Thanks Greg. It's encouraging to think I can access the triangle without pulling the intake. Jacking the rear a good tip. Anything else that occurs to you to make it easier would be appreciated. Combined with Dan's detailed instructions I should be fine.

[Jcslocum]

Do the fuel lines if they are original.

[wachuko]

Originally Posted by Jcslocum

Do the fuel lines if they are original.

^ This!

[GregT2000]

A couple other things I remember:
- I took off the airbox, then the MAF. When putting things back together, I put the airbox and MAF together on the bench then reinstalled in one piece. In retrospect, it would have been quicker and easier to remove them as one piece.
- beware the fabric hose that connects to the back of the airbox. I have read a number of posts about people breaking the plastic nipple off the airbox when removing without patience.
- the hardest part was loosing a bolt that holds a circular bracket to the engine. It was necessary to loosen the bracket to lift the breather
cover off the 4 studs. Access is what makes it difficult; patience and trying all your different tool options is necessary.
- order an extra oil switch, as they are very inexpensive and can be damaged when reinstalling with too much torque.
- the hose brackets have a Phillips/std head, leading you to believe you should use a screw driver. While sometimes a shorty screw driver is best, when possible I found it much easier to use a hex ratchet.
- disconnecting the electronic harness from the MAF took gentle prying with a screwdriver and gentle wiggling. It took me a while to get a feel for how to disconnect it (it has a thin mettle wire catch around the harness that I thought required removal but didn't)

[rusnak]

OK some things need clarifying I think:

On a 3.2, you only need to remove the air box and air flow meter (AFM). You don't need to remove the intake, and there is no stock MAF.

On a 911SC, you have all the CIS stuff in the way. I think you're looking at dropping the motor.

The "Triangle of Death" (a term that Draco came up with first) is:
1. oil pressure switch
2. breather gasket
3. engine block thermostat o-ring. Buy the green viton one, but if it doesn't fit then use the red one.

Oil cooler seals are a separate matter. I'd replace them if you have the motor out of the car.

[steely]

Originally Posted by rusnak

OK some things need clarifying I think:

On a 3.2, you only need to remove the air box and air flow meter (AFM). You don't need to remove the intake, and there is no stock MAF.

On a 911SC, you have all the CIS stuff in the way. I think you're looking at dropping the motor.

The "Triangle of Death" (a term that Draco came up with first) is:
1. oil pressure switch
2. breather gasket
3. engine block thermostat o-ring. Buy the green viton one, but if it doesn't fit then use the red one.

Oil cooler seals are a separate matter. I'd replace them if you have the motor out of the car.

+1 - what he said

[GregT2000]

AFM, not MAF sorry

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by sfgsfrg

The oil seals task is a bigger job and not part of the triangle.

We got a repeater... with hidden links who could not get the image to show

Say Goodnight

[andyt11]

yeah, if you have the intake off, you have an opportunity to replace the hard fuel line that runs beneath the intakes and across the back of the engine to each fuel rail. You should at least be able to inspect them.

[Arne2]

I'm preparing to do this to my 3.2 over the break between holidays. Planning to try to do it w/o pulling the intake, but ordered new intake manifold gaskets and injector seals just in case. Also ordered the two big breather hoses, as mine now have plenty of weatherchecks showing. Will report back on my progress later.

[sailchef]

Originally Posted by jackportia

I don't have a whole lot of confidence in my abilities and am looking .........to remove the air filter housing, right side intake, fuel rail and injectors etc.

My first time I had about the same confidence level, I took one look at all that and decided to drop the motor. Soooo much more room to work with, and..... a whole lot of other stuff to get into, "while you're in there".