Poor Man's Lightweight Battery

[Jack Olsen]

I've had a 25-pound Stinger battery in my car for about five years, now -- or rather two of them. The sealed lead acid batteries are lighter than stock, and can be mounted in any position without risking leakage and rust, but only have a finite lifespan.

At $175 list, the Stinger is no bargain. The second gave up the ghost, recently, and I decided to do a little research before -- for the sake of a lighter car -- I lightened my wallet a third time.

I found this page, which explained a few things that I hadn't known previously. One is that companies re-label these batteries and mark the prices up. In my case, I was getting a battery that was targeted at the aftermarket audio world. The Stinger SP-800 I'd been using was essentially the same as the 26-pound Odyssey battery, which can be had for less -- the PC925 sells for as little as $110, according to a quick Froogle search. The lighter PC680 is a little too small for my useage, I think. I appreciate the greater weight loss, but I've seen too many guys jumping them after a few repeated starts.

I wish there was something in between the two.

Well, the same page also listed a bunch of other sealed lead acid batteries, and it led me to a market for sealed lead acid batteries that seems to have less markup than cars -- wheelchairs.



The Universal UBC UB12260 weighs 5 pounds less than my Stinger, and fits in the same space in the car. It's capacity beats out the Stinger, and at BatteryWholesale.com sells it for $43, with $12 more for shipping.

That's about a hundred bucks less than I paid for a battery the last time around, and it's saving me five pounds in the bargain.

The only catch is that the terminals aren't the standard auto type. So here's my question for the Electrical Engineers out there. I had brass type terminals from the stinger which attached with a threaded fastener. I machined down the same pieces to fit at an angle on the new battery. There's a lot of contact area between the battery's terminals and the piece from the Stinger.

Is it going to work?



The page I found also has some interesting information on the effect of ambient temperatures on the lifespan of these sealed lead acid batteries. It looks as though owning these in California (where it's hot) might make the $100 difference in price more meaningful, since it looks like I'll be replacing it before too many years pass.

[bell]

as long as you have a good solid contact that will do fine jack, personally i'd put the proper sized ring terminal and bolt it right to the battery tab.....less things to come loose on track, better insulation.

[Redlineshftr]

Thanks for info Jack, Im actually in the market right now for a smaller and much lighter battery! I can't believe how expensive some of these batteries are! Theres no way they cost that much to produce.

Mike

[jorian]

11111 posts - cool.

I would like to replace my battery as well but am interested in cranking power too as it gets pretty cold here in the winter. The stock battery is a behemoth. Bigger than my truck battery. I'm not sure there is enough surface area on your modded post to get all the power. What about using the terminal that connects to the wheelchair power supply?

Wheelchair battery on an RSR - theres a joke in there somewhere.

[MOMO3.2]

Jack:

In a thread from last August, DW SD stated that he purchased a tiny battery from Costco for $40 that is very light weight. I think the thread is titled "Another Optima Battery Thread". DW SD (Doug) stated that it is part# 12848. He stated that he has had very good luck with it...

I am going to buy one tomorrow for my corner balance coming up this Friday.

Mike

[dd74]

15 lbs sticks out in my head as the weight of a battery TRE might be selling. But caveat emptor as to trusting anything that comes from my head.

[bigrubberjeep]

Jack - The connection looks decent, I doubt you would have any problems with it. My only concern is high current draw at start-up.

I beleive biger/lower gauge connector would be required. There are connectors used in the car audio world that will fit the connector you show. Those conectors are normally used on farad capacitors, so go by any high end shop and ask for one of those so you can see what I am refering to. Get the inexpensive one for trial, like $2.00, then after studying it a bit, you may want to go up to the "gold plated" kind for better conectivity.

Cheers,

George
(no I didn't bother to spell check)

[MotoSook]

Nice outside of the box thinking, Jack.


Yet, for those of us still stuck () in the Midwest, I wonder how much cranking amps it has. A 720 Optima has 720 cold cranking amps and is also rated at 44 amp hour.

The Odyssey and this universal battery are rated at approx. 27 amp hour. So (nope I'm not a EE) I'm guessing it has 440 or so of cold cranking amps.

So anyone in the the cooler climates using using an Odyssey or Stinger with a 27 amp hour battery have problems starting in the early spring or late fall? Or having to jump start their car at the track after repeated cranking and non-starts?

I'm not trying to deminish the spirit of the thread. I would love to replace my batteries with something that weights less than 20 lbs, but I don't want to be stranded...

[bell]

jack i can send you a variety of different connectors....pm me what you want to try.

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by Souk
Nice outside of the box thinking, Jack.

I would love to replace my batteries with something that weights less than 20 lbs, but I don't want to be stranded...

Stranded? You call a dead battery stranded? Now you know better then that Souk, us Porsche guys, it takes a dead battery, 4 flat tires with no spare, grinding gears, metal to metal brakes, broken exhaust, leaking oil, burining oil, knocking sound and a 120 degree day before we call AAA and say were stranded.


All a dead battery means is a reminder to give yourself a nice lunge stretch before the long road trip.

[MotoSook]

Ahhh...I can keep my car running or get it started with tin foil and 3 inches of 22 gauge wire...but when it's raining and I'm in my office clothes, I'm not going to look great or feel great about having to push my car across the parking lot at the office then hop into the rolling car to pop the clutch ... all the while my office mates are laughing at the idiot and his fancy Porsche from the window of their dry office

[Jack Olsen]

I'd be concerned if I was looking at sub-freezing morning starts, with this one. But the lighter one (15 pounds) is right on the edge of practical reliability, even here in SoCal.

It seems these are the basic categories:

15 Pounds:



23 Pounds:



38 Pounds:



In the midwest, I'd probably go for the 38-pounder.

However, it might be worth looking for a rough equivalent in the wheelchair category here.

[MotoSook]

Yep..I have an Optima in the "Bastard" which weights about 35 lbs. It's not too heavy, but the car starts cold.

My 750 Kawasaki is a pain to start. The carbs need work, so it doesn't start very easily. After repeated cranking...I might sometimes have to push the dang thing down the street than hop on, and repeat, and repeat . The battery in it is probably equivalent to the lighter batteries some of you guys are using. Oh to have the time to tune all my engines and live in SoCal.

But heck...for less than 50 bucks....the universal battery is worth a try...for summer running.

[rcwaldo]

Jack, if you end up using the terminal like pictured, you may wish to secure the cables such that the weight of the cable hanging on the terminal does bend and evetually break off the lug that is on the battery. Some sort of strain relief would be best.

[Fishcop]

Jack, I got what I think is the 38 pounder you have pictured but it was badged "Hawker-Dehaviland" and I got it from my brother (pilot), so I'm presuming they also badge up an aircraft version - it is fantastic and has never let me down (sinilar climate to SoCal). My brother told me they routinely change out the batteries in aircraft and he feels there is nothing wrong with them from an automotive perspective. Perhaps some pilots out there might be onto a good thing?

[Jack Olsen]

The one I got is 19 pounds. In the research I did, I found some guys with lightweight/experimental planes using similar batteries.

I'll let everyone know how it lasts.

[hmd]

Another option is to use Deka, pick the one you want from the list. Very similar to Odyssey but cheaper.

http://www.ms-battery.com/motorcycle-battery.htm


TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Model CCA AH L" W" H" LBS
ETX9 120 8 5.88 3.42 4.3 6.3
ETX12 180 10 5.88 3.42 5.13 9.4
ETX14 200 12 5.88 3.42 5.75 12
ETX15 190 14 5.25 3.5 6.55 11
ETX15L 190 14 5.25 3.5 6.55 11
ETX16 275 19 6.88 4 6.13 17
ETX16L 275 19 6.88 4 6.13 17
ETX18L 300 20 8.13 3.55 6.38 18
ETX20L 270 17.5 6.88 3.42 6.13 15.5
ETX30L 365 26 6.6 5.3 6.88 21.7

[Jim Richards]

interesting thread. thanks for the novel approach to solving the battery "problem."

[rphillips]

Interesting thread, wish it happened before I went for the optima in the targa. Although I can't complain, it has been a great battery so far. Tons of cranking power. I am also in the midwest and last year replaced the battery on my Jeep Cherokee which for the past three years has spent it's nights outside while the targa gets the garage. Aynway, when the battery went on it, I was shocked to realize that the CCA on the stock battery were what seems low, like low 400's. It was fine for six years and then just went in a matter of two weeks. I guess my point is, does one really need 720 CCA or more, if a 440 CCA stock lead acid battery fired a 4.0 liter Jeep for six years? I did end up putting an interestate in the Jeep with 800 CCA, price was good, service was great.

®

[Howard M]

I am actually using the "Wheelchair" Universal battery in my '76 911, mounted in the smuggler's box. It's on its fourth year. Using 15-50 Mobil 1 the car is reluctant to start in the fall and spring (40 degrees) but fine all summer. It is not driven in the winter. I keep the battery fully charged on a smart trickle charger. I am very happy with the battery's performance, especially for the money. However, when the battery finally fails I'm planning on replacing it with the small Optima for the 10 pound weight savings.