912 tdi

[My Porsche]

Has anyone ever heard of a VW TDI engine being swapped into a 912? This seems like it could be a really interesting project, and a really fun car as a result. I can't find much searching this forum or Google, just some very occasional anecdotal evidence or "Yeah that would be cool." Is that even possible? I know several different VW gasoline engines bolt up.

Any help is appreciated.

[Peter Graham]

'Yeah that would be cool'

I have an '09 Jetta TDI that routinely gets 46 mpg just beating around town/highway. Other than the obvious problems of boltup, diesel engines work most efficiently at/under 2000 rpm and top out around 4000+rpm. IMHO, the 912 transmission was designed with 2000 rpm to be the lower operating limit and 5000+rpm being the upper. I don't know if you can even regear a 901 transmission to take advantage of a diesel, but that is the first problem you need to solve. I would think any competent machinist can make an engine/transmission adapter plate.

[My Porsche]

Hmm, so the main obstacle is the transmission then? Fabricating any mounts or moving the mounts should be easy enough, provided the engine physically fits in the bay of a 912. Maybe just do a DSG swap too? Buy the entire drive train out of a diesel Jetta? (only kidding) It's just a 912, it wouldn't be quite as sacrilegious as doing it to a 911.

This project could be really awesome, think 356 Outlaw theme on a 912. But it could get out of control ($$$) pretty quickly I'd imagine.

[Peter Graham]

Whole DSG? Now that would be cool. Without lifting the hood on my Jetta, I have to think that the 912 would become mid-engine with the DSG (no trans rework - ring/pinion swap). A lot of effort for a car that would run on vegetable oil:

'Yes I would like a cheeseburger, a coke and a fill-up from your french fryer...'

[My Porsche]

Originally Posted by Peter Graham

Whole DSG? Now that would be cool.

Right?! To steal a phrase from the baby-boomer muscle car generation, that would be pretty trick.

New hurdle; inline-4 in an engine bay designed for a flat-6?

[Flieger]

I would lay it down like a Diesel Vanagon but in a trasverse configuration, then figure out how to adapt the DSG to it.

[duncan1437]

not sure if a diesel in a 356 is any help



more info here

Porsche356registry.org - my Tub wins at Watkins Glen!

[912UK]

not sure why the hell you would want to chuck a diesel motor in the back but if your going to do it right then get an Audi V6 Diesel get some propper BHP going in there loose the back seats transmition problem for space sorted.

Re Chip the ECU and raise the out put of the motor by 30%

Then you just have to work out how to stop the dam thing

[My Porsche]

Originally Posted by 912UK

not sure why the hell you would want to chuck a diesel motor in the back but if your going to do it right then get an Audi V6 Diesel get some propper BHP going in there loose the back seats transmition problem for space sorted.

Re Chip the ECU and raise the out put of the motor by 30%

Then you just have to work out how to stop the dam thing

Why do a diesel? Why the hell not?!

A 912 is already a black sheep, so it probably wouldn't anger any purists to do a swap, plus it handles well and is horrendously under powered. 40+ MPG and a quick light car? That sounds like a fun way to get around! To me anyway.

TDI because of availability in the US, though an Audi V6 with a chip is a beastly proposition. This is all a pipe dream anyway.

[JT912]

If from your smiley face you were trying to be joking, then yeah the 912 is the black sheep. If you were serious, then I take it you come from a VW background and aren't up with the current status of the 912. Yeah it is your car, just don't expect praise from us purists.

[Flieger]

Ah, it's just an engine. If he can install it in such a way that it can be reversed (no sheet metal cutting) then I see no harm. If he could have two sets of mounts like the flat 6 and flat 4 mounts already there.

[912UK]

I laugh in the face of 911 owners who slate 912's

I am not bothered it's nothing I have not heard before and I am just not interested. The fact that I have 4 912's yes that's not a typo..

Shows I am more than happy with what I have. I am looking to build one as a race car for the street yes but not with a 911 engine just chucked in sure I have looked into it but I would like to see what I can do with a Flat 4 first.

If I want to go really fast I have a modern day 3ltr Diesel BMW to do that..and a 944 S2 I am sure the BMW is fast i have not looked into it.. either way it's quiter, better on MPG

Still don't see the point of a deisel but if you have an engine less 912 project for not alot of money well I guess it would be fun. and as stated can be undone later I guess..

[jknapp3]

Ok, so I have a Type IV in mine, does that upset the "Purist"? I don't know where the guy got those "Values" on the 912. I can ask a stupid price too.. LOL Call those folks and ask them if they sold at that price, odds are not even close..
What you put in your car is your own business. I like unique things, some are a but over the top, but its still cool. In short, the "renegades shouldn't post that stuff here cause the Purists will wine like a spoiled child..
My .02 here

[JT912]

As a purist, 912 die-hard and 22 year owner of a '66 912 I feel relatively informed. Bastardized 912's do not command top dollar. Top dollar 912's are selling and we aren't talking about low teens. We're talking high 30K's. Yes, there are some who don't care about originality and there are more than a few cars for them. Do what you want to your car, just don't come to the party expecting a hearty welcome. Sorta like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa.

[Flieger]

I think there are going to be more people who would think that a WRX motor or another hot motor like a Polopolous in a 912 is way cooler than an original, pushrod, slow 912. I am an engineer so the old tech motor doesn't do much for me. Probably why I don't want a 912 or a 914 I guess.

Not that there is anything wrong with the purists, but I think they might be the minority.

[Flieger]

The 356 with the diesel is sad, but there were a lot more 912s and 911s made and they were not so different (Roadster, Cabriolet, Coupe, Hardtop, Speedster, etc).

If the car is only going to have 90hp I want the engine to weigh about 150 pounds and be in the right place. The 912 engine is lighter than a 911 engine but it is still in the wrong place. The 912 engine is just too weak relative to its weight.

A BMW S1000 engine in there would be pretty sweet. Especially with the sequential gearbox. Probably would get good milage too when you weren't flogging it.

[jknapp3]

I've had other 912's, it original condition, with the big 90 hp. I've walked away from them and not even trying to. also you need to re-gear them or your just farting in the wind. At 70, I'm turning around 3400 rpm. (3-5 Gears from a 914)

[lupin..the..3rd]

The engine you'll want to start with is the 1Z. The 1Z was only sold in the US in the 96-97 Passat TDI's, and the Mk3 Jettas. The 1Z is electrically very simple, and is the ideal TDI engine for a swap. You will definitely need different transmission gearing. You cannot use a Jetta transmission in a 912, since the Jetta transmission is transverse. You'd need a longitudinal gearbox. Ideally, the original 912 box, only regeared. And then you have the problem common to all watercooled engines; the need for a radiator to be mounted somewhere that gets good airflow - not the simplest proposition on an aircooled rear engine vehicle.

The VW TDI engines are great engines, very reliable and long lasting, very tunable, and very high MPG's; better than any 4 cylinder gas engine. Swapping one into a 912 however is not so straightforward...

[My Porsche]

Wow, seems I really touched a nerve with this one! You 912 guys are a funny group. I've never seen anyone get so worked up or haughty over some light hearted internet brainstorming.

The 912 was, from the onset, a 'bargain Porsche' much in the same way a Boxster is. The DNA of a 912 is of course almost identical to a 911 from the same year, whereas a Boxster is an entirely different car. That does not in any way take away from the car itself, or how fun it is to drive, or unique, or classic, or fun to talk about with other owners etc, etc. However, to compare an engine swap in a 912 to defacing a priceless painting is laughable.

Come on guys, lighten up. Life's too short to be irritated so easily by the day dreaming of some guy you've never even met.

Originally Posted by lupin..the..3rd

The engine you'll want to start with is the 1Z. The 1Z was only sold in the US in the 96-97 Passat TDI's, and the Mk3 Jettas. The 1Z is electrically very simple, and is the ideal TDI engine for a swap. You will definitely need different transmission gearing. You cannot use a Jetta transmission in a 912, since the Jetta transmission is transverse. You'd need a longitudinal gearbox. Ideally, the original 912 box, only regeared. And then you have the problem common to all watercooled engines; the need for a radiator to be mounted somewhere that gets good airflow - not the simplest proposition on an aircooled rear engine vehicle.

The VW TDI engines are great engines, very reliable and long lasting, very tunable, and very high MPG's; better than any 4 cylinder gas engine. Swapping one into a 912 however is not so straightforward...

Thanks for taking this thread seriously. It's fun to think about, but with something this involved, it seems like it would probably spiral out of control financially pretty easily (like a lot of projects of this sort). Plus, at least so far it looks like I may not want to be associated with the 912 posse.

[Flieger]

Using it transverse would achieve better weight distribution.

Radiator is simple. Put it front center where the RSR oil cooler goes.