Should I sell my 912 or not?

wastintime · 05-17-2002, 11:54 AM

Hey everyone,
Well, I changed the spark plugs in my car a few minutes ago to Bosch W6BC plugs... and for about 10 seconds it ran better than it's ever run. Then a giant plume of blue smoke started shooting out of the exhaust pipe and never stopped. To say my car is burning oil would be a gross understatement.
I already have about $18k in the car and I'm wondering if it's finally time to just cut my losses.
Having said that, I'm kind of fond of the car, and don't really want to let it beat me.
Do you guys think it might be cheaper to fix the engine or get a new engine, or something like that...
I don't know... any advice or thoughts would be great.

Thanks,
Andrew

JuiceMan · 05-17-2002, 04:10 PM

My advice would be to pull that 912 engine out and sell it then just put in a decent 1800 or so CC VW engine. Of course you will loose a little performance however if you are tired of spending big bucks on engine stuff then just swap in the VW engine

By the way folks don't flame the facts

wwwcad · 05-17-2002, 05:40 PM

Hi Andrew,

I've read your posts since joining this forum about 6 weeks ago and I can understand your frustration. I'm just getting started with my restoration project and already I've had to replace just about every major component in the engine: the entire case (even the used one I bought has some flaws but we think it might work), heads, cylinders & pistons, cam, flywheel, clutch plate.

You name it, it was bad! The only thing that's kept me going is I was able to save the crankshaft, tranny and the webers. I'm afraid to have the generator and starter tested at this point! But what the heck, it's been a great experience for my son who's helping me. However, I'm sure I too have a breaking point and I don't know what it is yet. Hope I get it on the road before that happens.

So, I'll bet this post hasn't helped any, has it? I can't say I'd stick with it if I had as much invested as you. Hard to say, it's really such a personal decision. Good luck figuring it out, I'm sure it must be hard for you.

Bill

wastintime · 05-18-2002, 09:22 AM

Let's see if you guys can figure this one out because I can't...

The engine never burned any oil before I changed the plugs, and the engine never smoked before I changed the plugs.

I changed the plugs because one was terribly fouled, and another was slightly fouled, plus they were the incorrect plugs for the car.

Here's the part I can't figure out... yesterday whenever I started the car or it looked like I was fogging for mosquitos in my driveway. It was even worse if I stepped on the gas. Thick plumes of blue smoke shooting out of the exhaust pipe and just making a giant cloud. That looked to me like my engine was just dead... which was really frustrating since it only has 2-3k miles on it since it was rebuilt.

Today, I said "what the heck" and started the engine again. No smoke at all! I've been driving it for about the past two hours and haven't gotten it to smoke once!

Driving it, I noticed it's running better than ever! it's never accelerated or run like this before. I even got it up to 110 without any problems (would have gone faster, but there were other cars in the way). The only problems seem to be at idle, but I think that's because of the 44IDFs and my broken mixture screw... they don't like idling. Most importantly though... No Smoke!!!

Do you think somehow I was just blowing crap that had built up in the fouled cylinders out of the exhaust? and once it had blown it all out there was nothing left to smoke?

Now, there's one last thing that really bothers me, and don't ask why I even checked this, but I was checking my oil level (full) and thought I smelled something funny, so I smelled the dipstick, and it smelled like gas. I wouldn't think it's possible for oil and gas to mix unless you'd burned up all of your piston rings in which case you'd have no compression at all. A friend of mine suggested the fuel pump could be leaking into the case, but the fuel pump isn't leaking, I checked that. Someone else suggested it could just be fumes carried from the crankcase breather hoses.

Any ideas?

Well, I'm hoping the smoking was a false alarm, and the car isn't really burning oil... which is good because I probably wasn't going to get rid of it and I would try to fix it or get a new engine in the car. I know I'm not getting any of the money I've put into the car out of it, but yeah, I'm kind of attached to it, and I didn't buy it as an investment to begin with. When it decides to run it's an awesome little car. Plus it's the first car I ever owned, and I'm pretty fond of it. Granted yes, it's had it's fair share of problems... I've had to replace just about everything on the car... floorpans, transmission (3x, that's a really long story though), linkage, fan shroud, every part of the electrical system save for the wires, brakes, heads, etc....

Maybe I'm nuts, but as frustrating as the car is I'm still hoping I can make it into a daily driver, because it really is fun to drive, and working on it is pretty fun too... as long as it's not too major.

Thanks for the input guys, I'm glad I didn't end up needing all of it though.

Andrew

Jones Low · 05-20-2002, 09:44 AM

Hi Andrew,

Only two places where gas can get into the 912 crankcase: through the rings or through the fuel pump. If you are smelling a lot of raw gas in your oil, I would bet its your fuel pump. If I remember correctly, if there is a leak in the diagram, it's a straight shot to the crankcase since the plunger that moves the diagram is driven off the distributor drive shaft that's also in the crankcase. I would not run the engine too much if at all if you are diluting the oil with gasoline, can't be good for the bearings and crank since gasoline is a
good degreaser.

The gas through the rings would be harder to get, your carbs would have to be flooded all the time, the gas would have to trickle down the manifolds, pass the valves, into the combustion chamber, through your rings to get to the crankcase.

I would double check that fuel pump. I can't think of any other place that raw gasoline could get into the crankcase and the oil.

Jones
69-912

wastintime · 05-20-2002, 02:56 PM

It's not the pump, I checked and it isn't leaking anything at all. Also, after looking at it, I don't think it is possible for the fuel to leak into the case from the pump. There aren't any spaces where it could get in. It might leak around the diaphragm and onto the exhaust pipes, but it couldn't actually get into the engine itself.

At this point I'm 99% sure it's just fumes from the breather hoses. My mechanic said he wouldn't worry about it and that's good enough for me.

wastintime · 05-20-2002, 03:42 PM

... and per my standard luck the fuel pump won't go back on the car...

Jones Low · 05-20-2002, 04:01 PM

Andrew, sorry to labor on the fuel pump, but I'm thinking the fuel pump is leaking internally. Kind of like a heart murmur where the diaphram has a small hole and as it pumps gas it is also squirting gas into the crankcase via the plunger. You wouldn't see this from the outside. Fuel pump would have to be pulled and examined. This may be the source of gasoline in your oil. How strong is the gasoline smell in the oil? The breather hose that goes to the air filter housing lets out a small amount of oil vapor, and the gasoline in the carbs go down to the intake manifold, it should not go backwards and into that breather hose. If your engine is a stock setup I can't think of another gasoline source to your oil in the crank case.

Jones
69-912

Enrique · 05-20-2002, 05:10 PM

Three other ways to confirm gas in the case:

1) with engine cold briefly open oil drain plug, watch oil flow out... does it flow fast like water or gas, or slow like oil?

2) pull dipstick, put a lighter too it... does it ignite?

3) smell dipstick and remember, your nose knows

If you were messing with the carbs a lot with the car turned off, gas could get in the chamber(s). Then upon starting car gas washes cylinder walls, and lots of smoke emitted from exhaust.

The above happened to me after I installed my rebuilt carbs. The car wouldn't start and I was messing around the carbs, actuating them a lot while trying to figure what little mistake I'd made in rebuilding carbs. Well, I figured it out, but in the process washed my cylinders. I changed the oil and filter that day, and then again 15 miles later.

Good luck.

Don't sell it.

wastintime · 05-21-2002, 07:40 AM

I got the fuel pump back on, I'm going to try the lighter trick in a couple of minutes, hopefully it won't burn.

I know the engine is only 3000 miles old, the rings are fine, and the fuel pump isn't leaking (I tried several different test, checking for air bubbles, gas coming out, loss of pressure, etc...) ... I can't think of any other way that gas could get into the case. If it does burn I guess I'll be stumped. If it doesn't I'm still stumped because I don't know why it would smell like gas.

wastintime · 05-21-2002, 08:05 PM

Tried holding a lighter to the oil, and nothing happened. It still smells like gas though. It doesn't seem any thinner than it should be... who knows.