Decoding Help
 

can someone help tell me what I have here

68 912 non sunroof 3 guage

Vin: 451440
Eng: 221664 - Possibly VW?
Trans: k2477 ? 18/65

Value?

That's a '65, not a '68. You buying or selling?

912 Code Tables
 

Click this 912 Registry link for starters. First digit of early engines should start with a 7 or 8. Try obtaining a factory Certificate of Authenticity for the original engine and trannie numbers.

912 Registry | VIN Table

Click the other buttons on that webpage for trannie number sequences, paint codes, etc.

Looking for a friend.. sorry for the mistype of year..

Best I could tell after looking at the site mentioned is that it is a Non porsche engine. Would someone agree?

What do you think the value would be considering paint is black and faded, front pan is new, little to no rust with exception that front of passenger floor had a hole and was fiberglass repaired. tires ok, wheels appear original but didnt check year stamp, 3 guages good shape showing 109k miles, dash has a cover, seats good, carpets ok, ... etc. Used condition.

Are you certain about the engine number? On the 912Vin site, chassis number 451438 is listed and the trans number is given as 223058. Might your engine number be the trans number? The engine for 451438 is listed as 741055 so I'd expect a correct on to be of a similar number.
This could (should) be a painted dash car which does ad some value. Black was also a rarer color. What color interior? Does it have the paint code on the drivers hinge post?
Can you post pictures of the engine? There are some telling differences between Porsche and VW motors.
Naturally the extent of the rust will be a big factor in determining the value of the car. I just sold a '66 with rust, but running engine for $5000. I would assume this car, if it is a driver, would be valued around $10K +/-.

JT is in the ballpark and not jerking you around. Post pictures if you can. And get the actual type number and serial number of both the engine of the gearbox. How to identify them is posted all over the internet.

Sorry for the delay. The car is black now, however it's a repaint. Original color is a white code 6404

I sourced what I have as the engine number right under the intake manifold. It also had an * on each side of the number.

I will have to go back and look closer for all the numbers and see about pictures.


Would one of you please tell me the specific spots to check for these numbers?
And can you tell me the easiest way to Verify Porsche 912 Engine from any VW? - Still learing
Thanks

The engine number will be just above the pulley and on the base of the generator stand

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344269833.jpg

The gearbox type and serial number will be on the bottom rib of the bellhousing pointing towards the ground. They often get a fair bit of road grime on them. It will probably start with 902/0 or 902/01 and then a 7 digit number. The 11 digit numbers you will find cast into the casing and end cover and what not are casting numbers/part numbers. They won't tell too much. You've already found the casting date, which is 18/65, meaning the castings were done in the 18th week of 1965.

Regards,

Matt

Should all 912's this year have an aluminum Vin tag up front close to the bumper under the hood? Dont see it nor any rivet holes where one normally is.

A '65/'66 will have the tag by the smugglers box. It will be near the stamped chassis number. If it has carpet in the front, you'll need to pull it up.

I saw the stamped vin below the smugglers box lid. Are you saying there is another tag near the stamped one, if so, which direction, and will it be an aluminum tag?

Here ya go.
Posting pictures of your car relating to your questions can also help get extra info on your car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344436475.jpg

Vin: 451440 Tells me its a 66
Eng: 753155 with no other stamping near distributor, case halves top or bottom. I failed to look near the lower pulley...
Trans: 902/1 221664 I didnt see this early of a number listed ???

So from doing some reading Ive found that "if an engine only has the one stamping that I found its possible that the riginal was ruined and a new oem one was installed. the reason no other stampings would be because the new engine did not come with the stampings and up to the installer to restamp". Is this true?




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344477107.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344477135.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344477167.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1344477209.jpg

The engine is a 67 912 and the transaxle is a 5 speed and most likely original to the car.

Also the distributor is a VW 009. Which does not have a good curve for a street 912 engine. You will need to replace it with a one of the following: 022 , 031, or the RS0012. The RS0012 is a recurve 009 that fits the 912 engine very well and is cheaper than the other two.

The 009 and the 050 are two to stay away from. They will work in a pinch. But not with the performance that the 912 is capable.

Are all of the RS0012 labeled as such on the outside? Or would it still be stamped 009. If it looks the same on the outside 009 how can you tell if its been recurved?

I didnt see the trans # listed on the trans number page I found. None were listed with this low of a number, can someone help explain

Also, Can one give me the reason as to only having the one engine serial #

Thanks

There is only one engine in the car.

The case is in three parts. They have casting numbers that are match and the serial number is on the third piece and the only piece that you read the number. The other two are mostly covered by the fan shroud.

I think that Benton restamped the RS0012 when they are recurved. I do not have one. I use a 031.

The transaxel numbers started at 220001 for the 902/1. The 902/0 4 speed starts at 163001. Most 66 transaxels were 902/0, originally, for the US market. The 902/1 could be had as a special order for US cars, in 66.

So then this car is a late or early 65? With an optional 5 speed - correct for its year and vin.
The engine would not be a match though because its a 67?
Is this right ?

With that gearbox number and vin you are looking at a chassis that was built in 1965 and sold as a MY66 vehicle. If you check the 912 registry it will give a good idea of when your car was built, but I would guess 3rd to 4th quarter of 1965.

Matt, from what i have seen on the 912 registry the Vin shows manufactured year as 65 model year 66. I didnt see on the registry where to find the approximate month though.?

The Engine shows to be manufactured in 66 but falls under a 67 model year.

The Trans number on the registry I see as a 902/1 begins with 234001-238942, so i didnt even see the number of mine within that spectrum. However, another posts stated the trans number began with 221000-.....

So, could it be that this Karman built car in 65 labeled as a 66 production year been given the optional 5 speed 65 gearbox, and a 66 manufactured engine labeled as a 67?

These early cars have so much interesting history, its nice to learn the unique differences.

Thanks

As I previously stated, we know your gearbox was made the 18th week of 1965.

On the engine I would not be in the least bit surprised if it is not original to the car. 20 years ago when noone thought these cars were going to be collectible, keeping things numbers matching wasn't really considered important. As recently as 2005 when I was working for Carquip here in Boulder, we frequently would take in a core engine and sell them a rebuilt one that we already had on a shelf in the warehouse on an exchange basis. We were even doing it with 356s. Little did any of us know that the day would come where numbers matching would make a car 20-25% more valuable.

How can I verify if the engine is original to the car?

Also, Can you tell me more as to why I only see the one serial number on the engine and no other stampings.

Sorry, I'm a gearbox guy by trade. It is true that back then if you ordered a replacement engine it frequently wouldn't be fully stamped. When I worked at Carquip we had several 911 engine cases like that, though they were the other way around from your situation. They had type numbers on them, but no serial numbers.

The only way to find out (maybe) if it is numbers matching would be to pay for a COA from Porsche. Though that would only show how it was originally delivered and often things are missing. The COA on my 914 Bumble Bee shows my engine number but no gearbox serial number. And the older they get the more inconsistent they seem to be.

I don't know if you have closed the deal yet, but if it's a decent car, it is worth buying. A nice old 912 is a good car even if it may not be 100% original.

You are told things that you obvious do not want to hear. However, this is not going to change anything.

The 65 model year 912 was not started until the April of 65 and ended at the end of June of 65. The were only built about 3 months for the Euro market only. The 66 model year started in July of 65 and ended June of 66. Before you ask why it was started in April of 65 and not earlier. The Factory ended the 356 C in April of 65. There were no New 65 912 sold in the US until the 66 model year. Because of the 356 C still in production.

The engine is not original to this car the number is even later that my 66 that left the factory at the end June 66. The Serial number is only on the third member only. If you want to see the casting numbers on the other parts of the engine. Pull it and then remove the fan shroud they are under where the fan shroud covers.

The transaxel 902/1 was started being used for the 66 model year before 66 and for the 65 912. It was the 901/0 transaxel.

So the car in question is probably very early 66 model year. The transaxel is a 66 model year 5 peed most likely, because of the low serial number, original to the car. The engine has been replaced with one from the 67 model year.

Thanks for the in depth reply! and to all others who have helped along the way! You guys really know your porsche's and its nice to learn from all of you! SmileWavy