Karmann or Porsche Chassis

[Jim Chambers]

Attempting to enroll with 912 Registry and can't answer Karmann or Porsche question. According to B. Johnson book my chassis #129 02 **** is Porsche. Tag on door pillar with paint code says "Karmann". Who made my car?

------------------

[John Walklett]

According to your VIN your car was built at the Porsche factory in 1969. If the VIN had been 129 00**** then it would have been built at the Karmann factory. All the ID plaques are the same format with 'Karmann' on them. Hope this makes sense.

[Efrain68912]

On my 68, the Tag says Karmann. On my parts car, it says "made in Western Germany." I believe that my parts car was made at the factory.

[John Walklett]

The VIN number determins where the car was built not the word 'Karmann' on the ID tag. On cars up to 1968 if the first digit is a 4 then it was built by Karmann, if 3 it was built by Porsche. On 1968 cars built by Karmann the VIN would be 1280**** or 1282**** if built by Porsche. On 1969 cars built by Karmann the VIN would be 12900**** or 12902**** if built by Porsche. All 1976 cars were built by Porsche. Also all Targa's were built at the Porsche factory and have different VIN numbers.

[ronrob]

Thanks for that John. So mine, with chassis no 129020860 is a Porsche built car?

Best regards,
Ron

[rapido356]

I think it's K body, i have a 20890 !

JLC

[apriliaguy]

My 66 says western germany. I thought it was west and east germany in that time period

[Rick Becker]

Here's the link to the 912/912E VIN "decoder". Note that VINs starting 12902 are believed to be Karmann bodied cars, per reasons outlined in a paragraph below the "912 Registry VIN Table". Notice there's a typo in the last line for the Targa VINs shipped to the USA and Canada, should be 129 01 0001>.

912 Registry | VIN Table

[Jaems]

The main reason for the USA/CDN vs The other was the 061 vs the 031 distributors. The 616/40 had the 061 and was a vacuum retard and the 616/39 had the 031 and was mechanical.

[djpateman]

12902xxxx are Karmann built, and the name on the paint code badge will support this.
If the badge does not say Karmann, then it will be a Porsche built body.

[JT912]

Not to debate things, but I would like to find out why two of my resources say 12902xxxx is a Porsche-built coupe. Both my Stoddard catalog and Dr. Brett Johnson's Restorer's Guide appear to be incorrect. I can't find my Spec Book to see what it says.

[djpateman]

Someone goofed many years ago, and everyone copied the goof without checking. Only in the last few years have the 912 forums agreed that there was an error and corrected the online information. Note the date on this post:
Vin Table with correct 69 data
There are a few other errors as well; there are gaps in the 911 & 912 VIN's between 1966 & 1967 model years for Porsche built cars (but as far as I know, not in Karmann 912), and the 1976 first VIN.
This table has the correct 1966, 1969 (except for the undetermined last#'s), and 1976 VIN numbers, so it is currently the best reference:
912 Registry | VIN Table

[Jaems]

The Factory Tech Spec book reads:

12800001-1280999 912 coupe' Karmann
12820001-1282999 912 coupe' KW-Porsche
12870001-1287999 912 Targa (all Targas were done in house at the factory)

The 911 uses:

11820001-11824999 911 T coupe' KW-Porsche
11825000-11829999 911 T coupe' Karmann
11830001-11834999 911 USA coupe' KW-Porsche
11835000-11839999 911 USA coupe' Karmann

If the tag on the driver's door post read Karmann then it is a Karmann built chassis. The factory would not use one that said Karmann on a factory built chassis. The factory tag would read made in West Germany. All Porsches were finished at the factory ( engines, transaxles, and etc.) Karmann only built the bare chassis.

11870001-11879999 911 T Targa
11880001-11889999 911 USA Targa

[Rick Becker]

Jaems, I agree with you about the door plate. Quick poll of 1969 owners: does your plate start with 129 00 or 129 02, and say "KARMANN", or "WESTERN GERMANY"???

My 1968 Targa says "MADE IN WESTERN GERMANY" [actually caps, not yelling :-)]; all Targas were built at Porsche.

The only year in question is 1969; multiple factory tech material are in conflict for that year. Please note my previous photo post for 1969 in this thread.

[djpateman]

One minor problem is that in 1969 the paint badge did not have the VIN stamped. I have lots of photos of paint badges that show Karmann, or not, but owners would have to show both a VIN and a paint badge as proof.