912 Engine ID?

awdbandito · 02-28-2013, 07:05 AM

Just want to make sure this case is what I think it is. Came out of a '69 912.

These are the numbers I've found in various places
*750026*
616 101 303 00
687
99156
616/36

The heads that are on it are 616 104 301 03

If anybody can just verify that it is a regular old 912 engine let me know. I think the 687 is the date stamp, July, 68.

Thanks for the help.

JT912 · 02-28-2013, 07:29 AM

Looks to be an early '67 912 engine.
Since there was only one 912 engine, unlike 911s, I guess you could say this is a "regular old 912 engine".

awdbandito · 02-28-2013, 11:29 AM

Thanks for the info.
It is in pieces right now, but came with a NIB 86mm big bore bit, Tricom 105 cam, weber 40 IDF carbs, and refurbished heads.
Along with Kolbenschmidt rod and main bearings plus A LOT of other new in wrapper small parts. The rods look to be original though and the crank could use a polishing.
I don't have much use for it, any idea what the lot might be worth?

djpateman · 02-28-2013, 12:57 PM

The 687 is probably the case mating #. Both case halves should have the same #, and the third piece as well although this was dropped on later engines. It looks to me that the case and third piece are matched based on my data. Post some photos of the #'s if you get the chance.

awdbandito · 02-28-2013, 01:36 PM

djpateman · 02-28-2013, 01:55 PM

Thanks, you can see the mating # on both halves confirming the two were machined as a set.

Rick Becker · 02-28-2013, 08:20 PM

Engine #750026 would originally be from one of the first batches of engines for installation in export 1967 model 912s, see: 912 Registry | VIN Table

The first batch of 912s built at both the factory and the Karmann plant were approximately early July 1966, see owners notes in:
912 Registry Owners List, 1967 Porsche Coupes VIN 354000-354970
912 Registry Owners List 1967 Karmann Coupes, VIN 458101-459000

So #750026 was probably assembled May-June 1966. The VINs and engine numbers only have a general correlation. While 750026 is an export market engine number, chassis were assembled on separate Porsche and Karmann factory lines, both having home and export 912s.

Jaems · 03-01-2013, 02:10 PM

Rick,

The 750026 was built in August/September of 66. The May/June 66 engine would have had numbers of 747xxx-705001.

The Karmann coach plant only built the bodies. The bodies were trucked to the Porsche factory and assembled there with the engine/trans, suspension, and etc. Also Karmann coach didn't build a 911 body until 68. Then only some of the 911's and 911T's. The rest of the 911S, 911L, 911 Targa's and some 911's and 911T's bodies were built at the factory. After 68 Karmann Coach built bodies for some of every model. Any 911 with a Karmann badge before 68 is a converted 912 into a 911.

Rick Becker · 03:15 PM

Jaems,

I must respectfully disagree. If you look on the VIN table linked previously, the owner of one of the first Porsche bodied 1967 912s indicates it was constructed on 7/05/1966, and has engine #750008 (assuming it's the original engine).

As for the bodies, my point was that Porsche chassis were sold in Germany and as exports, and the Karmann chassis were sold in Germany and as imports. There is no close correlation between engine numbers and chassis numbers, since Porsche and Karmann bodies (not to mention Porsche-bodied Targas) used different number sequences.

awdbandito · 12:16 AM

This engine came with with VIN tag Fahrgestell-Nr 12902177x

Jaems · 03-02-2013, 02:35 PM

Rick,

Back then the Porsche Factory shuts down July for Summer vacations and retooling for the next model year. It could of been a type-o and it should of been 05 Aug 66. Which would of made it one of the first 67's for the 67 model year which starts in August. Just like the 65 912's only ran from 5 April 65 to 30 June 65 as per copy of factory memo. The 66 model year started in August of 65 to June 66. This does not mean there were not changes during that model year as the 356 group can attest. The 68 model year was one of the biggest for the 912 due to the new US requirements. As old style parts ran out they replaced them with the new require changes. About the only way you would know when is by the chassis numbers.

awdbandito · 03-03-2013, 10:41 AM

This particular case came along with a 902/0 trans serial number 163008
Thanks for the information everyone.

djpateman · 03-03-2013, 05:19 PM

163008 is a very early 1967 transmission, and would likely match the engine, but certainly not the 69 you found it in. Out of curiosity, what is the date code on the diff cover side of the transmission? There will also be date codes inside the engine case. Each case half could have a different date. Often the dates are a two digit year with a ring of up to 12 dots, one dot per month.

awdbandito · 03-04-2013, 05:39 AM

I couldn't find anything on the engine case for a date only:
616.101.102.01 - KoK 4 - 2
616.101.101.01 - KoK 4 - 1

Then on the front cover,
616.101.303.00
Then it had 66 inside of a circle, with two tick marks going around the circumference.

The trans is date 4/66

Matt Monson · 03-04-2013, 06:37 AM

So your end piece is Feb of '66.

awdbandito · 03-04-2013, 09:01 AM

OK, so I found the dates on the case halves.
Both are May of '66. I was looking inside the case, and they are on the exterior.

Here are pics of the transmission.

Matt Monson · 03-04-2013, 09:11 AM

A 902/0 gearbox could have been found in either a 912 or 911. While it likely goes with the engine in question, for some reason someone has attached it to a 911 gearbox mount.

Jaems · 03-04-2013, 10:47 AM

The 902/0 is a four speed known as the USA spec trans. Most likely it came out of a 912 since the 4 sp was the standard trans for the US imported 912's and special order for the Euro 912. The 5 sp was standard for the Euro 912 and special order for the US. The 911 902/0 would have been a special order. Since the 911 came standard with the 5 sp. The only difference between a 911 or 912 4 sp would have been the gearing.

djpateman · 03-04-2013, 01:55 PM

Super, thanks for the dates.
Both Matt & Jaems are correct on the trans. The 163001+ series of 902/0 is only for the 67 912.
The 67 911 got serials in the 200xxx range with the same gearing.

awdbandito · 03-04-2013, 03:56 PM

Thanks for all the great info here!
Not sure what to do with these though since I don't need them.
Do you all know of anybody restoring a very early 912 who is missing the engine and trans?
It would be good to see them go back in an early car. I only have the three pieces from the case, the crank, and the rods. I do have the fan and housing as well, but at this point I don't know if they would have gone with this engine or not.
Would $1000 be too much to ask for all of it?