912 E to start with?

[MrPim]

Greetings to all,

I´ve wanted a Porsche ever since i was a lad and for one reason or another i´ve never made the jump into ownership.
Now that i´ve some grey in my beard i figure it is a good time as any to make the move.

I have a strong leaning towards the 911 SC, but searching the classifieds I´ve come across a nice looking example of a 912 E for about 15,000€ (I spend my summer months in Europe, hence the €) From the pictures it looks to be a well cared for example in silver, with sunroof, a/c and claiming a factory carb conversion kit.

The pictures in the ad are rather small, but i´ve contacted the seller and requested larger pictures and more detailed information. I´ll post those as soon as i get them.

I´ve been reading up on the SC but know very little about the 912 E other than what i´ve been able to google. I´m not sure of current values of these cars in Europe, excepting that Porsche are generally more expensive.

I know the info on the car is very limited for the time being, but i´d appreciate any information or opinions the board members might be able to give me.

[upwardr]

The 912E is not a 911sc. Performance will not be near the experience however it may just suit your desire to be in the drivers seat. No doubt after driving the 912 you will start looking for more speed.

[Matt Monson]

There is no such thing as a factory carb conversion but that's not really a problem. Weber or Dellorto aftermarket carb conversions remove a lot of the expensive and hard to find 912e fuel injection components. However they do make the fueling a little more finicky with respect to tune if you travel with the car.

Otherwise great little cars. Very rare in Europe because the 912e was a US only model. They are loved over there for their fuel economy. The suspension is all 911 so if you want to drive it fast you can, you just have to keep momentum because of the low power. The price sounds about right if the body and mechanicals are sound.

Mr. Pim,

Prices of used cars, including classic cars, differ per country here in Europe. The country where this 912E is offered is at the low end. If you plan to buy the car, you should have it for a few thousand less than advertized. The internet will help you to compare prices of similar cars in different countries. You will be amazed.

Apart from that, I would look for a 912E in a more or less original condition. The factory installed Bosch injection system is not easy to adjust, but to my opinion it runs much better than a Weber conversion - factory Weber conversion is indeed nonsense.

There are not so many 912E's here in Europe, but maintaining these Porsches is no problem. The VW engine was also used in the VW-Porsche 914 and these where sold here in the 70's and have still a respectable group of admirers/drivers. So parts and service is available.

Otto

[MrPim]

Firstly, thank you all for taking the time to respond.

upwardr - I know that with a whopping 86 hp the 912e is not going to compare to an SC. I own an e30 318is and an Alfa Romeo Spider, both of which are under 139 hp but are very fun and involving cars to drive, which i imagine from reading is the case with the 912e.
Besides, where in Southern Europe could i use the 200hp of an SC ? With fixed, rolling and aerial radar traps, doing anything over the legal 120 km brands you a criminal and lands you a hefty fine along with a loss of points.
Still, i wouldn´t rule out an SC if one came along for the right price.

Matt -Thanks that´s good to know about the "factory" carb kit. Probably just the seller trying to add cache to the car, that or he has no clue. It may be a bargaining point for me in regards to originality

I´ve noticed that 912e´s are very scarce here. The 3 that i´ve seen advertised are all recently imported from the US. They seem to be more common in the UK.

Otto- Since i´ve posted, i´ve looked around for for similar models to compare, and in mainland Europe i´ve only found 3 for sale on a Dutch Classic Car website. They were priced in the mid €13,000 but needed body work, a repaint and interior work to get them looking respectable. Not to mention the added cost of importing and registering in another country. Those costs are far and away higher than the €15,000 asking price.

I would prefer an mostly original car, so the fact that the FI has been replaced can be used to try to bring the price down a little.

If and when i manage to get a better idea of the condition of the car i will decide if it´s worth making the 1,000 km trip to look at it.

I will try to update this as i gather more info, but all of your replies are appreciated.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Otto H. Wegkamp

There are not so many 912E's here in Europe, but maintaining these Porsches is no problem. The VW engine was also used in the VW-Porsche 914 and these where sold here in the 70's and have still a respectable group of admirers/drivers. So parts and service is available.

Otto

There may be guys who know how to work on it, but the 912E injection is unique to that car and not the same as what was found on the 914s. Outside of the longblock, very few parts cross over and are the same when it comes to the actual injection.

MrPrim,

If those are the orginal steel wheels, that's pretty rare. Almost all of them were delivered on the optional 14" Fuchs. In fact I've never seen one that had the steel wheels.

[MrPim]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

There may be guys who know how to work on it, but the 912E injection is unique to that car and not the same as what was found on the 914s. Outside of the longblock, very few parts cross over and are the same when it comes to the actual injection.

MrPrim,

If those are the orginal steel wheels, that's pretty rare. Almost all of them were delivered on the optional 14" Fuchs. In fact I've never seen one that had the steel wheels.

Matt, i just got word that the car was sold. Too bad, from the large amount of images he sent me, it looked to be in solid shape.
The dealer mentioned that he has a '66 912 in black that needs a re-spray for about €11,000.
I thought the 912e came with Fuchs, all of the ones i´ve seen anyway. The steel wheels look nice on it though.

Matt,

I thought the 912 E injection was a kind of taking the best of L-Jetronic and D-Jetronic, so parts would be available. I did not know that some parts where specifically made for the 912 E. I only have experience with the 914's I owned not with the 912 E. Sorry, I'm wrong then.

Here in the mid/north of Europe (Germany) there are some classic Porsche specialists who I would recommend. but I'm not sure how knowledge and experience with these systems are spread in the south.


MrPim,

I do not know, but I can imagine, who the sellers here in the Netherlands are. They generally try to sell their cars for prices above the average value. That is their good right.

A 912, a driver, just needing a respray is not available here in the mid/north for about € 11.000,-. That is the price for a project car with major body and engine work.

I would look at cars near to your home in Europe. It's easier and cheaper to visit the seller and you will be able to take a decision based on what you have seen.

Otto

[MrPim]

Originally Posted by Otto H. Wegkamp

Matt,

I thought the 912 E injection was a kind of taking the best of L-Jetronic and D-Jetronic, so parts would be available. I did not know that some parts where specifically made for the 912 E. I only have experience with the 914's I owned not with the 912 E. Sorry, I'm wrong then.

Here in the mid/north of Europe (Germany) there are some classic Porsche specialists who I would recommend. but I'm not sure how knowledge and experience with these systems are spread in the south.


MrPim,

I do not know, but I can imagine, who the sellers here in the Netherlands are. They generally try to sell their cars for prices above the average value. That is their good right.

A 912, a driver, just needing a respray is not available here in the mid/north for about € 11.000,-. That is the price for a project car with major body and engine work.

I would look at cars near to your home in Europe. It's easier and cheaper to visit the seller and you will be able to take a decision based on what you have seen.

Otto

Hello Otto,

I won´t post the link as i´m sure you know who they already are

I should have mentioned that i´m in the South of Spain currently, if i were back in Canada there would be more of a selection to choose from.

But searching the classifieds all the 912´s i can find are north of €18,000 and they still need work. The ones below €18k are rollers sans motor or rusted out.
This one seems ok but i will wait for the hi res pictures from the seller before saying more on the state of the car. He does say that it has passed its yearly TUV so that is slightly encouraging

I´m not in a rush though so i won´t take the plunge unless it´s up to my standards. I want something i can drive not a never ending project.

How is the classic Porsche scene in the Netherlands?

Mr.Pim,

Europe is also a kind of restoration project, taking a lot of time to put all the pieces together and give it a more or less common color. That means thatthings like TÜV, MOT or APK - as it is called here in the Netherlands - differs from Sweden to Portugal and from Poland to France. Even the defintion of "oldtimer" or "classic car" differ from country to country. I do not know if and what kind of TÜV they have in Spain.

But if it easier to find a suitable car in Canada, why not buy there and ship it to Europe?

I cannot tell you anything specific about the Dutch Porsche community. From what I've heard they are quite active regarding meetings, trips and so on. I live very close to the German border and therefore more oriented towards that country, as well for parts as for driving along the quiet roads in the green north with friendly people and good food.

Otto

[MrPim]

Originally Posted by Otto H. Wegkamp

Mr.Pim,

Europe is also a kind of restoration project, taking a lot of time to put all the pieces together and give it a more or less common color. That means thatthings like TÜV, MOT or APK - as it is called here in the Netherlands - differs from Sweden to Portugal and from Poland to France. Even the defintion of "oldtimer" or "classic car" differ from country to country. I do not know if and what kind of TÜV they have in Spain.

But if it easier to find a suitable car in Canada, why not buy there and ship it to Europe?

I cannot tell you anything specific about the Dutch Porsche community. From what I've heard they are quite active regarding meetings, trips and so on. I live very close to the German border and therefore more oriented towards that country, as well for parts as for driving along the quiet roads in the green north with friendly people and good food.

Otto

I know what you mean. The ITV (MOT)in Spain is a longstanding joke with the motorist, with laws that change from year to year. To say the least it is not serious and serves only to punish the owner of classic vehicles while doing little for the public safety. It looks like there´s only a European Community when it´s in the politicians best interest.

As for importing...I was hoping that i could avoid it, as it is complicated and expensive to import an older vehicle into Spain, but it looks like this may be best solution.
Besides the huge offering of 912´s/911´s in North America, the prices tend to be lower and the cars for the most part better cared for.

I haven´t been north of the Spanish border yet, but one of these days when i get bored of the beach and the sun i may venture north for a little sightseeing.

Now i´m off to answer in your restoration thread!