Type 1 in a '76 912E?

[87911jon]

I'm thinking of buying this type 1 engine and putting it in my '76 912E. Is this a direct fit? Opinions?

for sale 2165cc 78x94mm turnkey motor.. it has less than 100 miles on it with all recipts totaling over $5,000.00 here are the specs: -78mm DMS crank forged and nitrided -5.600 scat forged I-beam rods with ARP 220 psi bolts. -mahle 94mm p&c with total seal full ring set -cb o44's with full P&P, 42x37.5 valves dual springs, ss valves,3angle valve job done at peek preformance. - scat 1.4 forged rockers (red ones) -engle fk-10 cam,3/8 chromoly pushrods and scat lightweight lifters, scat straight cut gears. -webber 48 idf's with hex linkageand air cleaners -new alternator 55 amp and fan
-009 dist and wires with striped points -berg 26mm full flow pump and cover -berg 3.5 qt sump and equalizer pulley -scat s.s. valve covers -kennedy stage 2 clutch kit with cush loc disk -doghouse style cooler with black tin -1 5/8 merged header with custom 1 chamber flowmaster muffler -case work, fullflowed, welded behind #3,clearences for up to 84mm crank and has 94mm p&b openings also thrust cut for cam bearings.and decked for compression of 10.23:1

[Griznant]

Well, sounds like a fairly hot T1 engine, and would probably do fine in a Bug or Ghia. In a 912E? Doubtful.

A couple of things to note:

I'm not sure what flywheel you would need to run the 923 gearbox and a T1 engine. In order for the starter to mesh properly with the T1 flywheel you would need something like an early 912 flywheel. I'm not positive on that though.

Secondly, you would need to create some sort of rear hanger for the engine, which will not be easy to do since no T1 engine was ever hung off the rear. I'm not even sure where the hanger would bolt. Maybe modifying an IRS Type 3 hanger would work, but even then I don't know if it would fit right.

Compression over 10 to 1? On a type 1? Yeah, well, good luck on having that run on pump gas. It will run hotter than hell pushing the heavy 912E around all day. These things meltdown in Bugs (read: 500 less pounds to push) with that high of compression. Unless it has some supersquish pistons, which I didn't see mentioned, there are no special tricks, so it's just a standard flat-top with high compression. Not good.

Type 1s are notoriously short lived in highly-tuned form. They can be VERY fast, but don't last a tremendously long time, and that's in a much lighter car. The Type 4 that is in the 912E to start with is a much better choice for modifying and long life. Build the T4 into a mild 2270 and you will have an engine that can crank out 150hp and live to tell about it. Plus, all the parts bolt up and it's MADE for the car.

Just my thoughts.

Later,

G

[87911jon]

Thanks! I had a funny feeling about that. Guess I'll stick to rebuilding a type 4.

[COLDBASS]

If originality is not a concern (I'm guessing not as you were thinking Type 1), then perhaps you should look at a used 3.0/6
Approx $4,500-$5,500...200+hp

Good Luck

[87911jon]

Originality is not a concern as long as it isn't a chevy V8. I was looking at this engine because of cost. $2000 complete with webers/ exhaust etc. If it were a simple swap, I was going to buy the "hot" engine and rebuild the old 2.0 original one. So I'm back to looking for a rebuuildable 2.0 type 4. My daily driver is a '87 911/3.2 that has 180k and runs strong. A 3.0 in the 912 would be a blast, but I like the lightness of the 912 as it is.

[COLDBASS]

87911Jon,

Well I am sure that someone will disagree with me, however,
a mild Type IV rebuild, done correctly, will begin to add up very quickly. Since you have a 3.2, then a stock 2.0 will feel like a 36hp Type I. If emissions testing is not an issue then IMO a 2.3 is an ideal configuration without sacrificing too much longevity. Don't go cheap on the heads, this is a critical area for power. Several options for induction, really comes down to how much $$$ do you want to spend, what is your budget?

Good Luck, check out Rabys site for some ideas...

[Jake Raby]

No way, it'll fry.

I have a pair of 912Es, (864 and 979) I drive one daily with my version of a 2056 "E Special" engine...30MPG, and 130BHP with carbs. The EFI version makes 110BHP. I have a version of 2270 as well, a flat torque curve and power to 6500 RPM with a great curve between 3-6K, making 145BHP, with carbs (not EFI compatible)

Keep the car TIV powered, don't ruin the best car ever made (in my opinion) by using the wrong engine. The TIV engine lasts forever in these cars, I have seen one with 321,000 miles on the odometer.

I build 15-20 912 E engines per year, we have learned alot of tricks for this engine in this car over they years.

[COLDBASS]

Originally posted by Jake Raby

Keep the car TIV powered, don't ruin the best car ever made (in my opinion) by using the wrong engine.

JR,

I never thought that I would ever hear anyone say that about the 923/912E. I've always thought that it is a very excellent model. My only complaint has been that the stock 2.0 was underpowered. With CA emissions, we are limited to what can be done (no mods to induction, exhaust/TRs and EGR allowed).

I wonder if VW would have continued with the Type IV performance evolution if the 914 and 912E continued to be manufactured a few more years...I still think that a 4 cylinder version of a Boxster would be popular.

Bob

[Jake Raby]

I just got back from a 1000 mile trip in my 912E, ran like a champ, this one is not underpowered, topped ot at 130 once with some dude in an M3 trying to run with me, but he could not drive, so......

yep, they are great cars, even better than a 911 to me, but thats because I'm not fondof the -6 engine.