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charging system issue

Hi

My idiot light is on at the dashboard since getting my car back from the bodyshop.

Prior to dropping it off (2 years ago) i had changed the regulator because the one on it had failed.

Fitted a new solid state one, and had cured the charging issue.

But now, light is back on (car not driven for the past two years)

Weird or weird ?


I've got 12,6V at the battery, voltage to the blue wire with ign on but engine off is 10,85V.

Also pictured is a yellow wire, that i thought maybe the bodyshop guys had not reconnected, if i plug it into the double spade terminal (where it looks like it should be) the starter motor starts running. No idea what this wire is doing here ??

Thanks for your advice
Old 06-07-2016, 05:07 AM
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Otto H. Wegkamp
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The yellow wire is used to start the engine from the back, instead of using the starter from the ignition switch - so it should not be permanently connected!

I guess your battery is in poor condition ...

Otto
Old 06-08-2016, 08:45 AM
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Oh I was wondering whether that wire had been added by a previous owner in order to do that, didn't know it was standard.

I'm also thinking that after 2 years without use and despite a fresh charge the battery probably is cooked. I don't know much about batteries though, is it possible that it's in a condition that means it can no longer "take in" the charge from the generator system ?

Thanks

Last edited by Ivory 912; 06-09-2016 at 01:01 PM..
Old 06-09-2016, 12:59 PM
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I forget what the process is called but you may need to "do it" to your system. It involves touching wires on the regulator...... I give this with hope that someone will chime in and explain the procedure for you .............. bob
Old 06-09-2016, 01:06 PM
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Polarizing the generator ? I saw a few things about that in the search results, but not sure at what point you need to do it or what the purpose actually is
Old 06-09-2016, 02:17 PM
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Otto H. Wegkamp
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"Ivory 912" (sorry, but I always like to see a real name),

When a generator is left alone for a longer period without the load of a battery, so it doesn't 'see' a voltage with the correct polarity, it looses its residual magnetism in the iron field poles of the generator. This magnetic field is related to the polarity of the generator output. A short current pulse from the battery to the generator generates a new field with the correct polarity. After this magnetic field is 're-installed' in the generator poles, it will stay there for a long time. Again, just short pulse is enough! See other posts here on the board for the correct procedure.

I have some experience with these generators, but had never to polarize one - even not after not running an engine, followed by a rebuild, for several years

BTW, did you check and clean the generators collector and brushes?

Otto
Old 06-12-2016, 04:01 PM
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The battery may not be holding a charge or have a bad or weak cell. I will assume that the 12.6 volts given was checked while the engine was running. My car uses a Alternator instead of a Generator. However, I believe that this is what yours should be doing.

The switch on voltage at the regulator is 12.4-13.1 V
The regulator voltage at idle No load 13.5-14.5 volts Load 12.8-13.8volts
You might also check the fan belt for correct tension.

To polarize the generator connect the battery lead for 5-15 seconds to the terminal 61/D+ on the regulator.

If you have your lights and radio on. The generator light will also be on or flicker at idle. That is too much of a load for the light to go completely out. The Generator is just not producing enough voltage at lower rpm. It might also stay on until after the 2000 rpm. That is why I have an alternator.
Old 06-13-2016, 10:48 AM
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Hi !

Thank you both for your input.

12,6 V at the battery was tested engine not running. But i agree that it might not be in the best of shape after such a long period of inactivity, so despite having been charged prior to leaving the shop it could be in bad shape.

Info about the needs of a generator is clear. The only car i had with a generator i converted to a later model alternator, but it was a bit more straightforward to do.

Jaems you say you have an alternator, and indeed i would like to do the same, especially if i need to start spending money on parts to fix the current system. Could you share what you did and what parts you used to do so ? I've found one retailer in the US who sells a conversion kit that looks good but for some reason shipping with them is like 50% of the price of the kit and then you get stolen another 30% by import tax. Would rather spend on other parts i need, but if there's no other option on the market.

Thanks

Joseph

Last edited by Ivory 912; 06-14-2016 at 02:38 AM..
Old 06-14-2016, 01:53 AM
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The alternator requires a different stand. It is larger than the Generator stand both the small and larger generators. The Bosch alternators are available and easy to install, just like the generator. I can go out and get the part number. However, the problem will be the Alternator stand. They might not be easy to find today.

Old 06-14-2016, 09:00 AM
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Otto H. Wegkamp
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Joseph, Jaems,

I had to dig in my memory - Google helps a bad memory - and yes, it seems they are still available. Zims Autotechnik sells a conversion kit:

356 or 912 Alternator Conversion Kit

It is - add the money for the alternator - more than three times the money for an original 912 Bosch generator, but it includes the stand and all the other parts you need. Almost a piece of art. And if you want to return to the original generator, it's reversable.

Otto

Last edited by Otto H. Wegkamp; 06-14-2016 at 02:03 PM..
Old 06-14-2016, 01:58 PM
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They are indeed the only address where i can find this special stand at through my internet search, and shipping is very high in the quote i got.

Will try to see if i can get it posted to someone i know over there who'd be visiting soon, or if anyone from my side of the pond is flying over.

Jaems, is your stand a "vintage" accessory ?
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1967 Light Ivory 912
Old 06-14-2016, 04:23 PM
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Yep, mine was available years ago.

Almost $600 for the conversion kit is very expensive, without the alternator included. Since they are the only game in town. I guess they can ask any price.

You should be able to find a Bosch alternator in your area. It shouldn't be that expensive for the conversion kit shipped boat mail as car parts. Unless Zims is trying to take advantage of someone not living here.

At that price, I would try and get the generator system going. If you are not going to add one of the modern radio and CD's to the system it should be OK. After all the old charging system was sufficient in the old days.
Old 06-15-2016, 09:54 AM
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they offered a 25 and a 35 amp system.. my 9/12 has a 35 amp voltage regulator and a 35 amp generator.... used it as a daily driver for 30 years.... no problem, other than worn brushes....
bob
Old 06-15-2016, 10:27 AM
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Otto H. Wegkamp
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Joseph,

Basically I fully agree with Jaems to keep a generator for the same reasons. Nevertheless it would be a challenge to realize an affordable alternator based charging system.

Our 912 engines are based on the VW beetle type I engine. I know that many beetle drivers upgraded their early type engines with alternators from the mid seventies engine. If I remember well, it was just a bold on conversion, even without changing the generator stand.

I realize that there are some differences in measures between the 912 and Beetle engine, but I think it makes sense to find out if a late Beetle (Bosch) alternator kan be adapted to the 912 engine. Some machining might be necessary, but I think it can be done. If you have access to a Beetle or a local Beetle club, it/they could be helpfull.

Just an idea ...

Otto
Old 06-15-2016, 02:59 PM
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The VW one still came as a kit. The oil filler tube may be in the way with the Carburetor.
Old 06-16-2016, 12:02 PM
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Right with you guys, i will for this (dwindling) driving season attempt to get what i already have back in working order.
Jaems, regarding polarizing, you said

"To polarize the generator connect the battery lead for 5-15 seconds to the terminal 61/D+ on the regulator."

I've read here and there that you need to bring a + to the generator (after removing the belt)

Which is correct ? I don't want to cook what's left of the charging system
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Joseph

1967 Light Ivory 912
Old 06-19-2016, 03:08 AM
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Otto H. Wegkamp
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Joseph,

To polarize the generator remove the belt, connect DF from the generator to the chassis and connect - just for a few seconds - the battery plus (+) to the D+ terminal on the generator. The generator will run like an electromotor for these few seconds. If it doesn't, the generator is most likely defective.

Please read my previous posts. It might help for a better understanding.

Otto
Old 06-20-2016, 04:04 AM
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All good, will attempt to test all this during my next days off work.

Will keep you informed if I'm successful or if I need any more info.

Thaks
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Joseph

1967 Light Ivory 912
Old 06-20-2016, 10:23 PM
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Hey guys

I'm back after ages, but i've been away and didn't have any tools at the storage space where the car is.

Anyway, i polarized the generator as per your instructions and all went well.

However, I noted that the generator seems to have been treated to someones mechanical douchebaggery at some point in the past :



So despite it turning round upon polarizing, looks like its crapped ?

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Joseph

1967 Light Ivory 912

Last edited by Ivory 912; 07-27-2016 at 06:06 AM..
Old 07-27-2016, 05:27 AM
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On a related issue, the belt currently on the car seems to be a 830x10.

It is, however impossibly too long by the looks of it (none of the spacer washers are inbetween the pulley)

I seem to have read that the correct size of the belt is 825x10 but I can't see how 5 mm difference can make a large change in the slack i've currently got with the actual belt (which may be an original 825 size but slightly stretched due to use)

Thanks
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Joseph

1967 Light Ivory 912
Old 07-31-2016, 03:03 AM
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