Let’s start tracking 914-6 conversion values.
 

Here’s one ending today. Think it will break $30k?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-porsche-914-23/

I have my doubts it will break $30k. Not because it's a bad car necessarily, but more because there are no undercarriage shots or full shots of the engine bay. Without more detailed photos to substantiate its condition, I think its hard to generate stronger bidding. BAT is a bit of a wild card, however, so you just never know how it might run up at the last minutes of bidding.

The only custom porsches that are currently bringing good money are RS wannabes. 914s can be picked up for $5-10k drop a $10-12k motor off of pelican and where does that get you? I would value a bone stock all original 2.0L 4 cyl over this one. Its only a 914/6 if its an original 914/6 in my eyes. What I would like to see is how much would a balls to the walls quality 914/6 GT build bring? Even then I think it will struggle in the same way custom short hoods still haven't reached any high numbers.

why was this thread moved?

I’m not sure what’s going on to be honest. I accidentally put it in cars for sale. I asked it be moved to Marketplace. Now it’s here...

I agree with your analysis of it. Nice original 73-74 2.0s are mostly worth more than many /6 conversions. However, it really is a case by case thing. Some were done a long time ago to a low standard. Others are being done now to the same sort of standard as Flyin Hawaiian's 911 stuff. Look at what PMB and Patrick are building for examples.

It's mostly a curiousity thing for me. I've decided to make a /6 out of my bumble bee. I'm probably devaluing it in the short term. I don't really care because I've always wanted a /6 and real ones are now out of my reach financially. I'm not buying any $50k+ car in the near future.

Perhaps some oversight thinking this is a simple conversion.
Custom front engine mount
Custom oil lines, thermostat placement, and a big one, the oil tank. Lines to front cooler etc
Some varient of 914-6 exhaust is needed
and probably a host of other stuff I'm overlooking. These conversion parts are not readily available at economic prices like those needed to do a 912 to 911 conversion.

This particular BAT car was good for the buyer.

All sorts of variables. A couple of years ago one of the guys on 914World built an out-of-this-world, show-quality '74 914-6 conversion, and did it the right way. The built was chronicled in (IIRC) 18 issues of Excellence Magazine. Stripped it down to the bare chassis, addressed the rust and chassis reinforcement issues, and then when from there. He ended up with a 3.6L engine and custom-built his 915 tranny. His out-of-pocket cost (net of the 911SC donor car) was on the order of $50K, and he ended up giving it away for $60K due to health issues! I would have easily paid that.

Concur that buyer got the car at probably a good price. I built a conversion car with a 993 engine in it. $10K for that low mileage 993 engine with ECU seemed outrageous at the time, but a good price today. It would have cost that to build up a 930 or .7R case anyway. I did a bare metal rotisserie thing on it and Tig'd all kinds of steel on it in the usual weak points. Epoxy prime and PPG paint were not cheap. Bottom line is getting money back on a 914/6 conversion is not easy. It has to be a labor of love. I sold that car before completing it and wish I had it back.
Conversions are not as easy as you think. And another problem with a conversion is that you find all sorts of additional stuff you want to do. Takes more time and additional money. It's very easy to end up under water.

Here's one now that a potential owner is considering selling. He is just asking for input on potential value at this point, but this particular car is IMHO done to a very high standard.

914World.com - The largest online 914 community!

914-6 conversions don't bring nearly the money of a hot rodded 911 but they are fun and any 914 on the road is uncommon enough to turn heads. It does require quite a few custom parts that are not sold often or cheap and a good amount of 911 parts if you want to do it right.

In fairness to the seller of this car, it was originally a genuine 914/6 that was subsequently upgraded with a '95 993 3.6 engine. This one probably isn't releavnt to the topic of 914/4 to 6 conversions, which I'm guessing this topic is about.

i wish this hadn't been moved. i, too, am curious about the market for the /6 conversions as i have no clue what mine is worth as there are no comps for it.

GT look with a 3.6 and all the goodies. i currently have no desire to sell it, but i am about to drop the motor for a reseal and tidy up a few things while i'm there. how slippery the slope i'm willing to endure is realistically driven by the value of the car as i'm not likely to own this one forever.

this should be in marketplace. matt, maybe start another thread there?...

Some ramblings:

911 fan base has always been very vocal, especially with their wallets.
914 fan base has always been very vocal, but NOT with their wallets.

Building an RS clone allows someone to feel like they have a $250-500K car for a fraction of the money.

Building a stock -6 clone, does not bring the same cache.

Very few folks build a true 6 clone.. cause we all know a 110hp 914 still isn't very exciting.

The -6 conversion crowd was built up because at the time, it was cheaper than simply buying a 911. That same dynamic still holds. a -6 clone.. built 6.. modded 4.. will always be less than a 911. And now that values have skyrocketed for 914s, there is still a general heirarchy.

original stock 6 at the top. Rusted out 1.7 at the bottom.

A -6 conversion is valued in its execution. Color, Motor choice and Suspension, Brakes. Then trans. Engine cooling. Clutch/Trans upgrade. Interior. The conversion market is the more emotional market.

"I've always wanted a 2.7-3.0l 914".. or "I want a 3.6 even though they melt 901 clutches". I don't know that the market still appreciates a 2.2 or 2.4 conversion given the relatively modest HP boost. Again, condition, color etc can mix it up.

A -6 conversion designed to mimic a GT is like a 911 made into an RS clone. At least it has a "real" counterpart one might compare to. Everything else? well, comes down to buyer and seller.

Let me know when a 6 conversion brings six figures because that’s what I have in my flared PMS 914.

That yellow car on BAT was a killer buy. I know the car (it's currently at Tangerine), I bid on it, but got stuck in meetings when it ended and got pipped. Guy paid $21,164 (+5% and shipping) for a solid car with a clean 2.4 CIS conversion (looks factory). 914-6 oil tank, proper 5-bolt conversion, Ferrari 308 rear brakes, very sano build.

It's pretty much how I'd do it, narrow body, 2.4L, 5-bolt conversion. About the only thing "wrong" on it is there's a bit of a hack where they clearanced the rear firewall (toward the trunk) to clear the CIS distributor (easily repaired), and it needs paint. Interior is standard "blah" but in good shape.

I'm quite disappointed that I missed out on it.

I think my mostly-restored street '74 2L is worth around $15k, so there's ZERO way I could replicate the yellow car for that price (hell, just buying the engine...) Even if my street car were bought for $10k I couldn't do it.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda...sigh...

914-6 conversion values
 

a dedicated thread to this is a good idea; did you also start one on World?

it also would help the wannabees who are dreamin' about that $500 shell in the uncle's backyard who are planning a credit-card build

agree with racer - CSOB's still rule in our 914 scene

- i've been tracking 'em for some yrs & could probably post a bunch of links, etc - (on some cold rainy week when i'm stuck inside & bored....)

fwiw i've often suggested that the value of a conversion = the eBay(or similar) used value of the parts separately - labor is irrelevant & mostly not valued -

- have not yet seen many sales yet to change this opinion given the run-up in 911 used engines & parts values - that $21K sale is about there

- 'cuz the 911 resurrection & modding guys will still pay more for an item than will a 914 guy

- we can still get a decent driver project 911 for the money it takes to get a 914-6 conversion on the road

- just sayin ;)

I can tell you that there is a changing market. Take for example that when I sold my 914-6 conversion 18 years ago I sold it for 11k .. The car recently sold on BAT for 29k with very little changed since I owned it. The other thing to note is that the aftermarket part for these conversions is growing. Since I have started making heat exchangers for the 914-6 we have delivered about 100 sets and the same with engine sheetmetal.. These parts are not cheap but rather more expensive then similar parts in the 911 world..


I personally think the former 911 ownership has migrated to 914s because of the cost of entry and still maintaining that 911 sound but even better handling.
.


I think we have 4-5 years before 914s in general almost are priced out of the average owners grasp. I also note that every single week I ship 914-6 parts out mostly for conversions and finally we can look at these cars as investments..

I’d say that a properly done conversion is probably the most fun/$ you can have. You really have to be able to do the work yourself to make it a financially viable for most. I just sold mine for the parts cost, with all my years of labor given gratis. Still, I’ll always remember the joy that car gave me.

I don't think this one got captured here

$37K
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-porsche-914-6-4/

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1552944626.jpg

I agree.. stock 4 bangers will become rare, due to all the six conversions, LS or Subi.
People will look at the cost of building one and just buy one already done.

maybe relevant to this discussion

Six conversion value for insurance?
914World.com - The largest online 914 community!

Hagerty Articles 2016
"Mecum offered a 914 upgraded to 2.2-liter six-cylinder power with 40mm Weber carburetors, Recaro seats, fender flares, Momo steering wheel and five-lug Fuchs alloy wheels at Houston in April. The trouble was that it wasn’t what it wanted to be – a 914/6. The bidders quit at $39,000, a telling contrast not only between real and make-believe 914/6s, but also the perils of spending vast amounts of money to make a 914 into a 914/6."

Curious insurance values / replacement cost is different than what your willing to pay for a conversion. I bought my 914 back in 2010 for $21k and it was steel flaired with a 3.2. I spent another $10k for 915 gear box and then another $15k for body work and paint job. No way, would I spend $45k for my car, but $10k at a time is easier to do. If I had the money, a well sorted 3.6 conversion for $40k would be more attractive.. I have yet to see a conversion sell for what they have in it. You can buy a much better car for over $40k. Cayman, etc...

worth more as parts than complete
 

a'yup - one VISA payment at a time - "... an E-ticket at Disneyland" :)

i have no comprehension of the rustoration crowd building tribute GT's on bodies that we happily junked yrs back :confused:

*****
.... a different perspective from March CarCraft op-ed: "the core of the classic car audience has been spoiled by the new car experience. Today’s auction block results prove most buyers will pay much more for a nicely resto-modded (...xxxx etc.) than a concourse correct relic sitting on skinny white walls." (~Johnny Hunkins)

******

fascinating discussion - i think this started as a thread about market value of conversions

- apparently agreed value insurance has little relationship to that

another quote - current issue of Classic Motorsports:
"remember what Hagerty's Jonathan Klinger told us a little while ago: "Car collectors continue to become more discerning, paying eye-watering amounts for very specific examples and refusing to even offer a bid for similar but lesser models"

as a market value comparison - i am looking at an $85K cash offer on my GT right now (currently best described as a resto-mod, albeit with rarefied roots & documentation)

- last year hagerty quoted $1800 to insure it for $100K - long way from the quotes i see above

https://pbase.com/emoze/914_6_gt&page=2

The Rusteration crowd does it because we can.. It's the journey for me.. It also means that the particular rust bucket was destined for the junk yard and you saved it. Sense of accomplishment..

Is your $85k GT a real six or conversion?
I am also seeing classic fords and Chevys with modern crate motors. Those makes sense, but I am not a fan of losing the whole front trunk to run a water cooled engine.

9140430919
 

9140430919

i think the preponderance of opinion here (but not consensus) is that nobody is gonna "make money" on a conversion car,

real question is "how much will i lose?" vs cost to build

it's a hobby - but hope springs eternal

i have long believed that the only guys making money on restos or restomods are the body shops, engine builders AND parts vendors

as said above - one can buy a whole lot of other modern equivalent-performance cars for the money or half the money

fwiw - i've been tracking conversion vs "real-six" sales for a long time - maybe i'll find time to make a list for this thread

Larry Lee has been tracking real-sixes forever almost

To keep this thread on the top page...

I asked this question on Facebook recently. The various answers are interesting. My car is a restoration candidate, I don’t pretend otherwise. What I think makes my car somewhat unique in the conversion world is that it was built using a crashed factory six. So, I have all factory parts sans VIN. While that means I’ll never get big money for it, it also means I didn’t pay big money for a running, driving, six. It also means I can drive it where I want with less worry about devaluing a higher dollar collectible.

+1 to Ben's (mb911) and David's comments. If you're building a conversion on a 914-4 VIN to make money, or even just try not to go under water relative to final value, you're going to drive yourself crazy.

We accept that "loss" every time we buy a new car, why would we think otherwise for a one-off custom build on a base car that's worth maybe $15k-$20k (if that) in stock driver-quality form.

Enjoy the project, enjoy the journey, enjoy the final product. Sounds like money well spent to me! If you want to skip to the end and just buy a finished one - that's fine too.

In my case, I jumped into an unfinished WRX conversion which is now ready for pick up next week. I have no illusions that I'd be able to sell it even for what I've got into it (much less the total money spent by the first owner), but I can't wait to pick it up & drive the snot out of it.

Rant over.. and now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Factory built special. I've always felt you've valued it too low.

what's it worth?
 

perhaps

- only one potential buyer has come offering a handful of cash in the last 3 yrs even tho it's availability has been no secret

- let's say it might get $100K at "well advertised auction" as the roadshow appraisers always say

(my friends who've experienced that venue say it's a crapshoot - maybe it will sell, or maybe not & in any case ya spent much cash to have it roll on the auction stage)

subtract the cost of auction prep & positioning, subtract the seller fees & buyer fees, etc etc

net cash in bank = about $85K - vs keeping it for it's "intrinsic value" as one of my 914 friends says

if i put it up FS on BaT or similar, the first thing that would happen is everyone on this site & World would start denigrating it, and debating "what's it worth?" (i have no stomach for that . . . )

- of course none of said commentariat would ever actually bid on it, cuz ya know, "the dog ate my cash stash last week & my kid needs braces" SmileWavy

fwiw Jurgen Rott of 2shores.com knows the car & the euro & collector market & says "$85K net is not bad" - i value his market knowledge

so i'm waiting to see if the net cash offer comes thru or if it's just another "big talk flipper" trying to find a bigger money euro buyer before he finalizes the deal

if no sale, it'll be at the SVR Concours June 9 & probably at the GGR Mammoth drive June 14 SmileWavy

I finally managed to get mine home this past weekend.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1560281603.jpg

It's got a Superec 2.8 built on a 75 7R case and a Wevo 916 conversion with LSD. It's built on an original 1970 470 chassis for vintage rules purposes.

Cool. Congrats. I'm in the middle of building one now... 930/02 engine.

Sweet, Matt! Do you know if that's an Al Johnson built car?

It’s not. Some place called Maverick Autosports in the Twin Cities area I believe. They built two identical cars, one for father and one for son. I think this is dad’s Car. I don’t have a ton of details beyond stories and a PCA logbook.

$19.5K for a narrow-body conversion with four-lug wheels and an RS-spec engine.

Thought about bidding on that one myself, it looked like fun...

That car was for sale on 914World for a while. I corresponded with the seller and almost bought it. Seems Nathanbs bought it.

I would have bid on it if it was a street car. Narrow body, 4-bolt, 2.7 pushes my buttons.

Still kicking myself for missing out on the original post.

Edit: correction to data