lug studs and nuts, what do I need?

bander · 05-07-2003, 01:41 PM

I am getting ready to do a brake job including rotors so now might be the best time to install studs. I think that I could benefit because I am using thin (1/4in) wheel spacers which reduce the thread engagement of the screws. Also, the screws are a PITA.

Do I need special nuts to mate to my Mahle wheels, or can I just go to my FLAPS?
Can I get studs pressed in to the rear hubs without removing them?
How do those of you who use really thick spacers mount your wheels, just long studs?

Thanks
-Brett Anderson

toman · toman's Garage

I'm interested how this is done also, I hate the bolts! I assume they have to be drilled and studs pressed in? cost estimate?

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Mueller has done the job, so he can offer more direct insight than I can.

Generally, 911 studs and lug nuts are used. The 911 nuts have the correct round seating surface, and they'll be metric so your regular 914 tools will work on them.

I think you will have to remove the rear hubs from the trailing arms, just to get clearance to do this. Ditto the front hubs (which are a part of the front rotors).

911 studs are available in different lengths; not sure which you would need. When wheel spacers are used, longer studs are used. There are also bolt-on spacers (spacer bolts to hub, wheel bolts to spacer) but those are a lot more $$$ and are much thicker than 6mm.

--DD

Zeke · 05-07-2003, 07:11 PM

Don't use lug nuts from the FLAPS! Get the real deal steel 911 ones like DD says. If your studs are too long the alloy 911 ones won't work, so use the steel. This all assumes you have German wheels. I don't know about American aftermarket wheels and the shape of the lut nut "dish." If your threads stick out more than a quarter inch, use a 19mm deep socket to remove and install the nuts. Keeps the socket all the way on the nut. Get a six point one if you can find it. Use a litle antisieze on the face of the nut to keep from galling the dish.

John Rogers · 05-07-2003, 08:59 PM

Find a Porsche dealer or Porsche race shop and get the hardened steel Porsche studs, nice and long for spacers. I use 1 inch spacer on each alloy wheel and have plenty of thread after the nut to make the inspectors happy. As Milt said use steel nuts only. Good luck

bander · 05-08-2003, 04:46 AM

Thanks for the tips. Can this be done with the rear hubs installed? I havn't taken the rotors off so I cant see how much room is left behind the hub to get a stud into. I am confident that I could drill/ream the hubs in place, but could I get the stud in?

I Dont think that I want to get into the hubs, because of the nightmares that I have heard about. but if I did, how long would it take to pull one off and put it back on. (My shop is well set up, air tools etc.)

John Rogers · 05-08-2003, 05:35 AM

The shop that I deal with drills out the threads and then the studs go in from the back and have a raised serrated area that is pressed into the hub. The have a jig to make sure the studs are perpendicular to the wheel seating surface otherwise you would not be able to get the wheel on and it would not run true. Good luck

Zeke · 05-08-2003, 05:42 AM

I think drilling it on the car would be disasterous. It is almost impossible to layout five points on a circle perfectly. So why not let a machine shop do that for you? I don't know about the East Coast, but FAT Performance in CA has them on an exchange basis for a little more than a hundred bucks including studs. I really don't see how you could slip them in from behind. See Pelican tech article on R& R hubs.

bander · 05-08-2003, 06:52 AM

I am not converting to 5 lugs. I will only need to drill out the 4 threaded holes. This could be done very carefully with a hand drill on the car but if the hubs need to come out to get the studs pressed in, a drill press will be used.

Zeke · 05-08-2003, 06:58 AM

Well, if you can get them in from behind, you can pull them thru the hole with a nut and a spacer. I used a press on mine, but if the hole is exactly the right size, and what size that is, I don't know, they will pull into place and stay straight.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

I know that you need to "spot-face" the back side of the hub when you re-drill for five-bolt. Are there flat spots around the existing four-bolt holes? If not, then you need to take the hubs off and put them on a mill.

You will have to remove the fronts, but happily that's not too awful. I am less certain about the rears, but I'm thinking there's a good chance you will. You can always pull off the rotor and check...

--DD

bander · 05-08-2003, 09:04 AM

I dont want to pull the hubs, and I may need to spot face. I do have a welder and would be tack welding them. Would anyone be affraid if I sugested that I pull them in straight, until the head contacts in the back, and then weld them in? I would probably make a jig to be damn sure that they were straight.

Also, I checked the local dealer for parts
Front rotors, $142
Rear Rotors, $266
Studs, $13 ea
lug nuts, $9.50 ea
total $1266

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Not sure on your question. On the prices, though:

Ouch!!! We get $110 for the front rotors here; $80 for the rears. http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/9144/POR_9144_brakes_pg2.htm#item12

--DD

bander · 05-08-2003, 09:32 AM

I just ordered everything from you folks.

I got a $100 gift card from the pca for my local dealer. Thought that if the price difference was less than $100 I would take them up on the offer. Boy was I wrong.

My previous question wasn't really a question but more of a thought.

John Rogers · 05-08-2003, 10:39 AM

When you get the parts, including the studs you will see how they are ment to go in. There is a serrated section and a flange on the stud that will bottom in the hole when pressed in. I checked with a shop and they said most definately do NOT weld them as the heat will affect the heat treatment of the studs and they could fail. Good luck

Zeke · 12:18 PM

When DD said "spot face," he didn't mean weld! He meant you have to provide a seat for the flange on the bolt. I didn't think of that. You know, if you're gonna do something, do it right. You have to remove the hubs.

Oh, and 9.50 can't be for a simple steel lug nut or else something is terribley wrong. I paid Otto's $2 ea. And you know he didn't give them away, he just sold them for a fair price.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

I think the lug nut quote might actually be for the stock alloy-wheel 914 lug bolts. That's the price, more or less, on them.

--DD