No tuna can for me

TGM · 05-29-2003, 07:29 PM

I'm glad I couldn't get my Tuna can to fit correctly. I never did like the idea of losing the oil screen. Here's a good reason to keep the screen - look at all the crap caught by the screen since my last oil change which was less than 1000 miles ago. It appears that most of the stuff is excess sealer used during the rebuild. So what do you guys think? Which is worse, momentary oil pressure loss around certain turns at the track or the chance of some of this contamination getting clogged in the oil passages?

pbanders · pbanders's Garage

I'll take the tuna can, thanks. Zero oil pressure is worse than a bunch of gunk that your filter would have caught.

TGM · 05-29-2003, 09:43 PM

The filter may not catch it since it would have to go through the pump first and then only part of the flow goes through the filter. I guess I should just bite the bullet and install an accusump.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

...And not use all that sealer on the engine... There's a reason that Kap'n Krusty hates RTV. You're looking at most of that reason in the pic.

--DD

Bleyseng · Bleyseng's Garage

Bearing material wiped off by lack of oil is way worse! As DD stated, proper assemby without all that RTV is the way to go.
That crap can come from slopping RTV all over the valve cover gaskets too, thats why Permatex No2 is good for em as it doesn't fall off into the oil.
Geoff

Jake Raby · 05-30-2003, 04:54 PM

Dave, watch it, thats Curil K2. Thats my engine!

I ALWAYS run the screen, seen way too many oil pumps spin gears after debris passes through them.

Thats not RTV, don't insult me!

Bleyseng · Bleyseng's Garage

Ok Jake, where is it coming from? It would be nice to know how to not have that stuff in the oil.
If you Autocross or track a 914 you have to run a tuna can or something or else.
Geoff

Jake Raby · 05-30-2003, 05:07 PM

My guess is that he was having some valve cover leaks and used some sealant there....It then finally went through the system and ended up there.

I'd rather lock up an engine due to zero pressure as to have that Tuna can crap hanging off the bottom of an engine.

pbanders · pbanders's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Jake Raby
I'd rather lock up an engine due to zero pressure as to have that Tuna can crap hanging off the bottom of an engine.

The logic of this escapes me. How is a seized motor preferable to a simple method of maintaining oil pressure?

Zeke · 05-30-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jake Raby
Dave, watch it, thats Curil K2. Thats my engine!

I ALWAYS run the screen, seen way too many oil pumps spin gears after debris passes through them.

Thats not RTV, don't insult me!

First of all, I think Jake is teasing us.

Quote:

I'd rather lock up an engine due to zero pressure as to have that Tuna can crap hanging off the bottom of an engine.

Now I know he is teasing us or his mind slipped into neutral. As pbanders said, there is no logic there.

Jake Raby · 05-30-2003, 05:49 PM

You guys need to loosen up.........That was my way of saying its an aftermarket item that I really dislike.

I have seen more harm done by them than good.

TGM · 05-30-2003, 07:21 PM

I get the idea that zero oil pressure is REALLY BAD but do the bearings really lose all lubrication if the pressure drops for 1-3 seconds? I don't think the contamination is RTV since it partially dissolved using brake cleaner. I did use some permatex sealer on the valve covers while attempting to make a trackside repair on my severe oil leaks last season.

Jake - I now have installed the CSP breather and was able to obtain a set of Carbon Joe's valve covers. So far on the street everything is dry. I'll be at Summit Point on Sunday and Monday and will let you know if the problem is fixed.

Glad to see I created a little debate, was getting worried that my posts were just a little too boring.

pbanders · pbanders's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Jake Raby
You guys need to loosen up.........That was my way of saying its an aftermarket item that I really dislike.

I have seen more harm done by them than good.

What's wrong with them? I've had one for over 20 years w/o trouble on two different motors. Never had any problems at the track with low oil pressure, it seems to work pretty well. Is it an installation/maintenance issue?

Zeke · 05-30-2003, 08:31 PM

Carbon Joe!!?? Now there's a name you don't hear too often any more. When did you get the valve covers? Is he still making them?

TGM · 05-30-2003, 09:22 PM

On my engine the stud is not completely square with the case and with the extra length of the Tuna Can I could not get the perimeter to seat evenly. Knowing this is a weak area I didn't keep cranking it tight to staighten it up.

Zeke - I got my valve covers about 4-5 months ago and from what I read here on the forum he's not making them anymore. They are made really well and I hope they remedy my sucked in gasket problem.

Jake Raby · 05-30-2003, 09:34 PM

The Tuna can adds to the "Syndrome" that occurs with TIV engines, so often....I have once seen a 9,000.00 engine RUINED because of one, and a 4" square block of wood on the road.... That cost me almost 60 hours labor.

No, I don't like them.....seldom do any of my customers have this problem with oil starvation.......

Zeke · 05-30-2003, 09:45 PM

Tell you what TGM, the thing is a POS to install. I'll give you that on a platter.

Jake, My headers will be ripped slap off before the can goes. And, not being a motor expert, I have no idea what the T-4 syndrome is. But, I do remember you saying that you run a modified windage tray in your motors, but most of us have no idea what that is about either. We just do the best we "can."

Jake Raby · 05-30-2003, 10:07 PM

Zeke, just look at the windage tray design and you will see that it is perhaps the ISSUE WITH STARVATION. as the oil cannot return back into the sump fast enough to feed the pick up tube.

At high revs alot of oil ends up in the valve covers, travelling up the pushrods.....this oil cannot get back very fast through the lousy designof the tray....So I butcher them and only use them to control splash and slosh in the case....

My tangerine header sits higher than the engine case, everywhere..case in point above had a Kerry Hunter header andit was wiped clean as well.........

Difference was that I had about 60 hours in that engine case........2813cc daily driver!!]]]

TIV syndrome is a situation where the case web that supports the pick up tube is broken, from overtightening the sump screen plate.......the tuna can multiplies it by thousands of times, as it hangs low.

Bleyseng · Bleyseng's Garage

Good thing there isn't very many 4" pieces of wood laying around at the track. I run the windage tray without the gaskets so the oil can drain back faster like you say. I still don't like the idea of no oil pressure for 1-3 seconds at 5000 rpms at WOT.
Geoff

Jake Raby · 05-30-2003, 10:28 PM

I really have no problems with it.....in my 914, my oil pressure gauge is right in front of me, and I use a modified Audi oil press switch set to come on at 20 PSI, it seldom ever lights up. I HAVE NO WINDAGE TRAY.

with 181 BHP, its possible to light the tires up sideways in 3rd, I think my light has come on one time, thats it......

Remember, oil pressure and oil volume are 2 different things...Pressure does not kill the engine, a lack of volume will. They work together, but you can still have low pressure and still feed the bearings just fine.