Incompetent head rebuilders

[guards73/2.0]

Shortly after I got my teener, it dropped a valve seat. I took the head to the only shop I could find who could weld up the head and replace the valve seats. Several incompentant mechanics worked on this motor until I found a shop actually experienced in type 4's in St. Paul and they assembled the motor properly but unfortunately relied on the integrity of the work done to the heads by the first machine shop: the one that replaced the seat
on cyl. #1 ( and the metal between the valves in that cyl) I drove the car maybe 1K miles an DROPPED ANOTHER VALVE SEAT! I'm told that these were not staked in or chamfered in any way, rather just press fit in. I had the shop send the heads to Fat Performance for service, mostly due to the good press they get on this BBS. Here's my question: When the mechanic assembled the motor, I asked him if the seat replacement looked OK ( they didn't even flycut the heads!) he said that he "didn't want to go digging them out an try to restake them" and that was his call. Should I ask him to consider that in bill for the the now-needed r&r of my cylinder heads? Next question: Was Fat Performance the right place to send them?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Fat does good work, but they will likely farm out most of the "standard" machine work to Rimco.

The seats are not staked in, they are merely put into a hole that is smaller than their outer diameter. In fact, the staking jobs I've seen for valve seats have made me pretty nervous... Some shops will put a reverse taper on the seats and the hole, but VW didn't originally and most shops don't today.

The most frequent cause of dropped valve seats is overheating. I'm convinced that is what caused mine--an overly-lean mixture leading to overheating.

--DD

[guards73/2.0]

Mine never got hot, fuel mix was really good, no signs of lean condition approx 2K miles on topend rebuild with poorly set valve seats. My mechanic showed me a race car with the same heads that FAT did years ago with no problems and showed me how the seats were secured and how mine weren't. Apparently, FAT stakes the seats in. ( or Rimco)

[sammyg2]

I spoke to the folks at RIMCO a couple years ago about valve seats, they claim that their valve seats do not drop, ever. I asked them what they did that was so special and they refused to give details.

Everything else they did to my heads was just right, i wouldn't have a problem sending them more work. The price is right also.

[Zeke]

And RIMCO has been in business for 30 years that I know of. They ought to know how to do it right.

[iamchappy]

Dune buggy supply, machine specialists in Hopkins, are a good local source for work on type 4s, ask for Bill, He built up a 2.0 914 to a 2.9 liter for me that screamed.
He has worked on a few other engines for me.

David

[1bad914]

Send them directly to RIMCO. They do great work and are reasonably fast and priced right.

[Joe Bob]

Well since you already sent them....not much you can do about it....

"I" would take Cousin Guido and visit the head repair shop and discuss the dropped seat. If they tell ya to pound sand, then file a complaint with your State Bureau of Automotive Repair.

[tod914]

If you dont mind me asking, what did RIMCO charge to do a set of 2.0 heads?

[SteveStromberg]

Heres their Machine shop prices:


HEADWORK

411 / 914, 356 / 912
Surface (includes grinding fin 356 / 912) - Pair............................... $50.00/$60.00
Open for Large Cylinders (411 / 914) - Pair.................................... $ 60.00
Valve Guides Installed (411 / 914) - Each....................................... $ 10.00
Valve Guides Installed (includes guides) -Each............................... $ 10.00
Seats Finished (3 angle) - Each.............................................. ........ $ 10.00
Bead Blast - Each.............................................. ............................ $ 20.00
Large Valve Seats Installed (411 / 914) (356 / 912) - Each................ $30.00/$35.00
*Complete reconditioning available, Price depends on type of valves used.
Surface - each.............................................. ................................. $ 20.00
Open for Larger Cylinders - Each.............................................. .... $ 25.00
Valve Guides (includes guides) - Each............................................. $ 12.00
Finish Seats (3 angle) - Each.............................................. ........... $ 10.00
Recondition Complete (no new valves) - Each..................................$105.00

[sammyg2]

Looks like prices have gone up a little, last time they did valve guides for me I think they charged $6 each.

[guards73/2.0]

Just got the news from my mechanic..Nine hundred and fourty dollars for FAT to replace valve seats, one stud. valve guides, flycut, do a valve job and shimming the springs on my 2.0 heads. Is this in line for stock heads? FAT, BTW says that Rimco no longer does headwork for them. Maybe I should have sent them there.

[chrisreale]

Im no expert, but that seems like it is too much money for the work they say they will do

[jabb]

That seems on the high side.....

[Griznant]

I had my heads done by Adrian at Headflowmasters.

Excellent work, $375 a head and for that he did the following to my 1.7L heads:

Surface head
open for 96mm cylinders
open for 44x36 valves
new seats, guides, stainless valves, HD springs
full port and polish
unshroud valves
chromo-exhaust studs
3-angle valve job

The heads I got back were gorgeous and work great. I would recommend him for those looking at doing performance heads. Standard rebuild stuff might be left to Rimco, but since they don't do any custom work, Headflowmasters is the place I'd go to.

Later,

G

[tat2dphreak]

ok, I also need headwork done on my 1.7... I have a question...

a) does the "complete reconditioning" include new seats and guides?
if so 105 is a great price compared to what I've found locally

b) are the "each" prices per head or per valve?

signed,
-Dumbass

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

You should talk to the guys at Rimco if you want those specific answers. http://www.rimcovw.com

For Headflow Masters, see http://www.audiracvws.com

The price FAT quoted was somewhat near what they quoted me for similar work. (My quote was higher, but there were cracks that needed welding up.) They are not the least-expensive place out there...

--DD

[tat2dphreak]

alos, I was looking at MOFOCO... has anyone used them for their head work... they say they will completely rebuild type 4 heads for 175 ea.

I know a lot of beetle guys swear by them for type 1 stuff...

[tat2dphreak]

Originally posted by tat2dphreak
ok, I also need headwork done on my 1.7... I have a question...

a) does the "complete reconditioning" include new seats and guides?
if so 105 is a great price compared to what I've found locally

b) are the "each" prices per head or per valve?

signed,
-Dumbass

ok, here's what RIMCO said... the complete reconditioning includes new guides, but not new seats... if you/I want NEW seats it's 30 per valve...
which makes the 105 per head VERY reasonable! chevy heads cost that much...

now I need your opinion then... I don't think I'm having any seat issues(just a damn burnt valve on one side)... should I just get the reconditioning? is it worth it to get all new seats while they are already there? or do I wait until I am building my engine to be bigger(2056 or 2270) and have it done at the same time as the porting?... I think I already know but I want to ask...

also, on other engines I've worked on you always got your heads done at the same time... for example:if you needed 1 new head, you should buy 2,or if one side had low compression and the other side was perfect... you still did both heads... is that still the case with 914 heads?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Do both heads at the same time. Do all the seats, unless you know the last time they were replaced.

--DD