Throttle off oversteer question

[scg]

Back when my car was a 1.8, it was a very neutral handling car. As long as I kept the tire pressures up in the rear, I could get away with accelerating hard and shifting (2 to 3) in corners without even a twitch. Really sweet.

Now (2.7), if I do the same thing, I've got to be ready with some quick steering input to keep my line...the car really whips into oversteer. It sticks, but a little less excitement would be nice.

Other than that, the car is nicely neutral and a joy to drive. Should I live with it? I suppose I could drive a little less hard on those freeway onramps (accelerate at a slower pace) Lower profile / wider tires? Switch to adjustable shocks? I obviously have a lot to learn....and one of the things I should learn is to be gentle with the throttle in turns!

(front sway bar, Konis {"stock"}, stock torsion bars, 140# rear springs, 195/65 tires).

...and no, I'm not going back to a 1.8 (less power is NOT an option)!

[HMeeder]

A greater tire patch with stickier tires will help a lot. You've got some healthy throttle oversteer there. I would also suggest attending some performance driving courses or getting involved with PCA autocross. These things will help you enormaously to find out what your car is capable of and how to control it (instead of letting it control you. You've got plenty of ponies, now to get them all going the same direction.

[Jim Smolka]

Bigger bars in the front will help to settle the rear.

[John Rogers]

Hummmm, several things are contributing to the new excitement in cornering: more weight in the rear, tires that were once good for the 1.8 are now too small for the bigger engine, soft suspension that is making the car move around more form the extra weight and finally the lack of a limited slip which would make the car shoot off a corner with an engine like that!!!! Get ready to start tweeking with most everything and the ride of your life will only get better! Good luck

[scg]

Thanks guys!

Thanks guys... money spent on the nut behind the wheel is a great idea – there’s a good school here in Portland.

I'm sure that JPIII will let us know when the next AX is (so I can get out there and spin-spin-spin!).

I'll follow that with some stiffer shocks (adjustable) and some wider tires when I wear these out.

Incremental changes (gotta watch the $$$)

[fetus]

I had a 2.7 with the same problem. I now have a 3.2 and created a bigger problem.
My car is a daily driver and I am a bad driver that needs more autox and drivers training.
Believe it or not adding a rear stock sway bar eliminated the problem.
I started with the following:
Front
-21 mm torsion bars
-22 mm adjustable sway bar all the way in
205-50-16 tires
Rear
-140 lb springs
-245-45-16 tires
Stock rear sway bar.

I first tried the above with no rear sway bar and 180 lb springs.
The car still spun out.
I then tried 140 lb springs and no rear sway bar and the car still spun out but not as bad.
I then added the rear sway bar and now I can get a little bit stupid on the throttle in a corner without it spinning out.

I was told by everyone that a rear sway bar is bad.
Ahwell....

Steve

[Jim Chambers]

I'm confused. Is the problem off-throttle or "trailing throttle"oversteer, as in slowing or shifting in a corner, or oversteer under hard accelleration in a corner (for all I know solution may be the same for either)? I was unable to keep the rear of my 2.5 six anchored under hard accelleration with 205/45's, 180 lb springs and no rear bar. Stock early 911 front t bars and sway bar. I was advised by Guru JP that my springs were too stiff.

[scg]

It's throttle off "trailing throttle" oversteer. The car is neutral otherwise (don't know what the ultimate limit is yet... I'm looking for a big *unattended* parking lot...)

[John Rogers]

Rule of thumb is: a four = no rear anti-sway bar unless you have limited slip, a six use a rear anti-sway bar. If the car is oversteering during freeway on/off ramp or other sweeper turns then larger tires would be the best first investment. But, as soon as the larger tires start hooking up, then the soft sway bar and spring combo will show up as the car will most definately roll more. Good luck

[AaronM]

My 2.0 four has a decent dose of lift-throttle oversteer as does my 924S. I had thought it was fairly common in RWD cars. I rather like being able to lift the throttle and make the nose tuck in, steering with the throttle is fun. Then again, I tend to prefer the car to be more oversteering.

Aaron

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

You might consider a larger front sway bar. A 19mm adjustable one is a decent match for the 140#/in rear springs, and should allow you to tweak the balance of the car.

Some lift-throttle oversteer is to be expected, however. As is some power-on oversteer.

--DD

[sammyg2]

And make sure you have a good alignment, any rear toe out would make the oversteer worse but it would also make the car twitchy going straight so I guess you'd already know if that was a problem. Never mind

[scg]

Hmmm. Rear bar.... I've got the 19mm adjustable and it's now all the way in. Still twitchy on abrupt throttle closure when shifting in corners, but not "OHMYGOD!!!" twitchy (it's now down to "Whoa!" twitchy). I'll see if I can get it down to "whoa!" after playing with the tire pressures. I could live with "whoa!"

The rear definitely rolls a lot more than the front... tying the rear with a sway bar should help that?

The throttle-on oversteer is fun

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

A rear roll bar (or stiffer rear springs) will make the rear roll less than it currently does. But it may very well make the car even more tail-happy than it is now.

--DD

[J P Stein]

You might try coming to the ORPCA AX 20 July, PIR South pits....that would solve the big parking lot problem.

When I finally got big enuff tires in the back end, I had few problems with stock T-bars, adjustable AR bar and 140 lb rear springs. Sure, power oversteer could be a problem, but it was
only "practiced, parcticed, practiced" at the AX.

Drop throttle oversteer can be lessened in a similar fashion.....look at the 9elebens.

Come on down & play. We'll finger out whut to do.

[scg]

7/20?

^%#@#$%&!!!!!! I'm in NYC then.

I'm signed up for 'school' with ProDrive 8/18...