New Question?

Gruppe5 · 11-28-1999, 10:09 AM

I want to put a 930 transaxle into my 914 behind the Chevy 350, because of horsepower requirements.
Anyone know of this being done or is the 915 only possible?

Also need to know if the halfshaft splines are the same as the 914 hubs? Im guessing not.

Will the 930 5 bolt hubs fit into the 914 rear wheel bearing?

Anyone got an idea of a gearing ratio plan for a road race application w/ gear numbers.

thanks all

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

I know of a guy that used a G50 trans, had to run it upside down and use a really Mickey Mouse shifter...but why use a real expensive trans when the 914/901 can handle up to 300hp on everyday duty 914/350 Chevy grocery getters...

300hp in that Gruppe5 light weight is a LOT. Renegade Hybrids uses the 901 and locks out the first gear...use that until it breaks, it's not as if you are going to be driving it everyday and get stranded in the middle of no where....right? Not unless you need a map to get to pit lane.....8^)

Gruppe5 · 11-28-1999, 10:43 AM

No grocery getter... well maybe once!

The engine thats planned is going to be over 400hp, I know thats way too much but, thats just how the numbers work for the engine parts put together (i'll believe it when i see the dyno test)

I see the 915 is good too 500hp, that may be the way to go. I like the idea of the bigger half shafts though....

And ... I dont like breaking down at the track... kinda makes for a bad day....

JP Noonan · 11-28-1999, 05:25 PM

I've seen a 930 adaptor on the Patrick motorsports site (I think), can't say if they're good or bad.

The 930 was a four speed except for '89 which had a five speed. My friend has a Euro '83 motor with a K-29, big intercooler, euro fuel head, high compresion, yada yada yada, it puts out 380+/- (fastest it's been is 170+) and he beats the heck out of it. The tranny is strong. Only thing he dosen't do is burn-outs, 18" SO-2's are pricy.

Germain · 11-29-1999, 04:22 AM

To quote Renegade Hybrids

I'd like to run more than 300 horsepower. Is there a stronger trans I can use?
Yes. Both the 915 and 930 trans can be modified for use in the 914. The 915 transaxle, from the 911 model cars, is good for about 500 hp. The 930 trans, from the 911 Turbo models, can be used in street applications up to 700 hp. However, it is much cheaper to run the stock 914 trans and keep your horsepower down to about 300. You'll still feel like you're driving a rocket. But, if you have your heart set on that all aluminum 600 hp engine, then, we can definitely set you up with a trans to handle the power.

So take it as you will there web site is http://www.renegadehybrids.com

Take a look

Gruppe5 · 11-29-1999, 04:38 AM

Thanks Germain, I have already been in contact with Andy down at RENEGADE. Thats where I am getting most of my conversion kit equipment from. There're the best.

Anyway, I was hoping to gather some of the expertise of some of you techincal wizards out there so I could prepare for the job. I can do most of the fit-up and installation myself... I just need the "RIGHT" products and the "RIGHT" information.

Theres alot of parts just laying around out there waiting to be bought up and put back to good use. But I don't want to end up with a bone-yard of my own trying this and that.

[This message has been edited by Gruppe5 (edited 11-29-1999).]

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Let's see...

I'm trying to remember what I have learned about the five-bolt/transaxle/driveshaft swaps. The 911 half-shaft is too short for a 914. The 911 and 914 stub axles and rear hubs have different splines from each other, so you can't just use the one or the other. I don't remember if there was a reason that you can't put the 911 CVs and stub-axle on a 914 half-shaft. I don't specifically remember that being mentioned as an option, so there may be a reason.

The 930 transaxle has been done. Just flip the ring and pinion. Easier than figuring out the oiling and mounting when you mount the tranny upside down. It'll be a tail-shifter, though.

The 914-6 hubs have the same splines as the 901-tranny'd 911s. Not sure if that's the same as the 915-tranny'd 911s. A parts book would come in handy with part numbers for that. Perhaps Pelican's on-line catalog would also help?

The 914 CVs are capable of handling a good bit of power, contrary to popular myth. Most of the CV failures appear to be from exceeding the angular tolerance of the joint, rather than sheer torque. The problem with the angles can be alleviated somewhat by changing where the circlip goes that holds the joint onto the half-shaft. (I think. It's been quite a while since someone told me about that.) Not sure how they'd hold up to 400 HP, though. YOWCH!

That's all I can scrape up out of my head at the moment. Good luck, and have fun! (And watch for #22, a black-and-yellow four-cylinder 914. He'll probably be blowing past you in the corners... ;^)

--DD

Gruppe5 · 11-29-1999, 10:10 AM

Thanks Dave, I'll look up some of that stuff. The angle on my half-shafts shouldn't be a problem, they are directly parrallel to the ground.

I guess since im going to all the work of doing this, i just want to be able to use it totally (burn-outs and all!) and not have to baby it. I dont like breaking down at the track.

#22 huh? you race out at PIR? tell me more. or send me a private email. The handling on my car is set up great, I dont doubt it for a minute. I just need the horseys to keep the pass completed during the run down the straightaways!!!!

Germain · 11-29-1999, 10:49 AM

I currently have the same desire. I was looking at the 351 Windsor sitting in my garage. Im not sure if it will fit, there alittle bigger then the 350's. However my biggest concern is dealing with supporting the frame. Are you planning on using a criss cross pattern under the floor board? Or just weldling a solid frame inplace? If so how thick of metal? I was thinking some 1/8 inch thick 1"x1" criss cross pattern. I was ust wondering how you are planning on handling it. BTW, my Porsche is a summer car, street only use at this time. And obviously I don't care about "origanal" equipment. Thanks

Gruppe5 · 11-29-1999, 11:57 AM

Well the floorboards (the pan) as you're reffering to, really is not neccesary to re-inforce if you have a non-rusted car. If theres major rust then you should replace it all or just get another car...

The most critical part is the rear frame rails and the rear a-arms, where most of your torqueing action is going to take place. I have re-inforced mine with just the kits that are sold, which are basically maybe 18 gauge steel that has been drilled all over for spot welding. It runs from the area above the a-arm frame mounting point, up and over the complete frame rail to the rear cross support.

The a-arm can be boxed, but basically all I have down is to fill weld around the bushing tube ends and fill weld both sides of all the factory welds for better saturation.

I havent had any problems and I have never had a problem with "torqueing" the chassis while powering out of turns.

Ill have some pics up soon on my website

Dane · 11-30-1999, 09:49 PM

I beg to differ!!! The foor pan is very important. My last car was a 78 trans am with a 400hp 400ci in it. It had T-Tops so all the tourque put all the stress on the bar down the middle of the roof and tweaked my frame a little. And that was a car with only half of the body being unibody. The 914 on the other hand is a complete unibody. Not to mention this is a targa top not t-top. Which means severe stress on the frame. I solved this problem by installing sub-frame connectors. With the 914 I don't have a clue. My guess would be if you used an X shape 1/8 thick steel welded to the floor rails wich run on either side of the car. Just my .02 cents worth. You can give change back

Germain · 12-01-1999, 05:21 AM

Dane, I had the same problem with my '67 Mustang. I didn't solve the problem then, and now that car has gone bye bye. I don't want to lose another car to HP. I think my floorboard idea of the criss cross pattern would work, but I want to know what everyone else is doing. Any input?

Gruppe5 · 12-01-1999, 05:41 AM

Well I guess you said it yourself.....

"With the 914 I don't have a clue"

Comparing a Pontiac Trans am to a Porsche 914 is like comparing the space shuttle to a cessna.... (not that the T/A or 914 are any space shuttle)...

[This message has been edited by Gruppe5 (edited 12-05-1999).]

TFI · 12-01-1999, 08:26 AM

on the axles issue, smart camber builds custom axles. maybe they would do an axle that has the 930 spline on one end and the 914 spline on the other end at the length that you need. http://www.smartcamber.com/prod_por.html

clear at the bottom of the list of parts.

-jim-

Germain · 12-01-1999, 11:18 AM

Gruppe5, I think I understand. Since the engine is bolted to the rear half of the car, there is no pressure in the front of the car and therefor very little torque. So supporting the middle of the car is not going to do any good, I need to support the "box" that the engine and trans bolt to. When are you going to have them pictures up, I can't wait to see them. Thanks

John Rogers · 12-01-1999, 02:29 PM

I may have missed something in the other posts, but from what I see at races and autox's it seems like the whole car should be braced, ideally from front strut mounts to the rear shock mounts. That is one of the reasons for the roll cage and bracing that most race cars have, along with crash/impact protection. As a matter of fact it is enough of a factor to warrent extra points in PCA or SCCA racing if the tubes go through either firewall.

Gruppe5 · 12-01-1999, 04:12 PM

Thats a perfect example John!... thats where any "extra" bracing comes in, but it still is the design of; "suspension points to motor and trans mounting points". Everything in between is just there.

If you imagine your suspension points as a box with 4 corners, and then a box within the rear of big box for your engine bay. Those are ultimatley the points you will want to connect together. point to point. The easiest way to do that is with a 4 point roll bar and then extend it forward to the front shock towers and backwards to the rear shock towers.

[This message has been edited by Gruppe5 (edited 12-05-1999).]

Dane · 12-01-1999, 08:58 PM

Grouppe 5?
Look where the motor mounts are! And say to yourself honestly. If I triple the tourque of stock it not going to put all that stress on the rear of the cab( the box as you put it) If you twist the rear with the tourqe you'll destroy the car!!!!I wasn't saying put 1/8 steel plate across the whole floor.
I would use strips about 2" wide in an " X " pattern. That isn't that much extra weight. I believe in reinforcing the box. However if you only do this you'll be sorry. If your frame tweakes your windows won't fit right, Your targa top wont fit right. I worked in a frame shop before and learned a little. This is just free advice. Do what you want and you'll see.

Germain · 12-02-1999, 04:01 AM

What if I have no desire to race, and also have no desire to put a roll cage in the car. Then what?
Wouldn't putting a roll cage (as described above) in be the same as replaceing the entire frame?
Also I have no idea about racing, never been around it. What does having "extra points" mean?

Gruppe5 · 12-02-1999, 05:29 AM

Well Im not going to debate torsional physics with you, whether you worked in a frame shop or owned one. The simple fact is this: The floor pan is not the weak point in a 914. There are places that need to be re-inforced. If you can't do it with a roll bar, then you have alot more work ahead of you then I did. I am building a track car only, which will have many more stresses than any street car under normal use. A street version 914 / V8 should'nt really need much more than a non-rusted frame with the rear re-inforcement kit welded in place. Many of these have been built and R-H has not reported any 914 frame separations due to torsional stress from HP.