Six Motor Mounting

hars914 · 09-23-2003, 03:18 AM

I am in the process of collecting parts for my 6 conversion.
I have a 911E motor with MFI which is going in.
What is the best bolt in mount I can use for installing the motor?
The engine will have headers.

jabb · 09-23-2003, 04:29 AM

Use the mount made by Rich Johnson..... do a search on
Rich Johnson and you will find plenty of information about his mount. Its the only way to go I believe Pelican also has his mount

John Rogers · 09-23-2003, 05:23 AM

We used the NEW mount made by Patrick Motorsports in Phoenix and it is great. It uses poly bushings and the way it mounts against the bottom edge of the firewall and between the two raised bosses means it is pretty foolproof to get in. There are several of the "new" vintage racing 914s using it and none have failed. We also used their aftermarket engine tin to seal the compartment and it fit perfect.

Mr9146 · 10:55 AM

Two things: 1)I've used the Patrick piece, but I don't know if it is the one referenced above. 2)It served it's purpose but created just as many problems as it solved.

1)It was great because it was easy to use and allowed me to just plug in the six with little hassle.

2)It was a problem because it didn't distribute the engine load correctly. The motor was mounted too far away from the engine itself, and under load the motor would actually twist the mount, tweak the chassis, and seriously affect the way the car handled. Of couse, I was running a hot-rod 2.4S motor in racing conditions.

3)It was also a problem because it drastically reduced ground clearance - this resulted in the mount catching on a pice of concrete and ripping completely out of the car. That led to a bent shift rod, a broken engine case, and an enlightened consumer.

I found that the Velios mount, while requiring a weld-job, is a far superior replacement to the Patrick piece if you want performance and quality. The Patrick piece is great to get you rolling down the road while you sort the car. I eschewed both in favor of a FACTORY firewall setup ... I had a close fabricator friend of mine make a beefy copy of the factory firewall mount and weld it into my car, I acquired a factory 914-6 engine mount, and I am now running a factory-style 914-6 motor mounting setup. This setup distributes engine loads far better than any other, improved the car's handling exponentially, and gave me back my proper ground clearance.

John Rogers · 09-23-2003, 11:36 AM

Hummm, you must have used the original mount as the new one is quite different. Check the pictures on an earlier post I did and you can see how it mounts to the firewall. There is nothing that goes below the edge of the firewall and when we did a fitup with a block and empty tranny it lined up great with the rear mounts for the tranny too.

Six Conversion Picts

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

The bar-type mount is the one that seems to not be as sturdy as it might. It sounds like Patrick's firewall mount is pretty good.

The Vellios mount is similar to the factory mount, but stronger. (For one thing, it uses two rubber isolators instead of just the one.) The Johnson mount is a very similar one to the Vellios piece, and that is the one that we carry as the "sport mount".

--DD

Rich Hilgersom · 09-23-2003, 01:22 PM

To clear up a bit of confusion

All "Vellios" is now NLA. Website gone phone gone..yada yada.

Patrick Motorsports now does the oil tank and possibly other items with some relationship with George Im not clear on.

I wish George Vellios well, but he still owes me big on backordered parts!!! AUGGGHHHHH...

-Rich Hilgersom

Jim Smolka · 09-23-2003, 02:24 PM

I have the RJ mount. Very nice. I think his new style does not require one to remove the rear wiring harness and route through an opening.

Anyway, I like to support 'the independents', so I try to get stuff made by Rich.

Mr9146 · 09-23-2003, 02:31 PM

Nice piece. It is VERY VERY VERY different from the one I had ... and I hope that I made it clear in my previous post that the Patrick piece served its purposes well for a very long time before it utterly failed me. Anywho, I like what I see, but I was wondering if you had any pictures of the mount sans motor. Would be nice to see more.

My only gripe with it would be having to drill through the firewall, but if you're converting to a six then orginality be damned anyway.

Dave, I know that the Velio piece is/was a dual mount. IMO just because it has two mounting points as opposed to the factory's single point does not, in my frustrated and distorted little mind, necessarily make it superior. In a daily driver situation, one mount is adequate. In a semi-race situation, one mount is adequate. HOWEVER, I am of the belief that if you start introducing things like solid mounts and above-2.7 displacement motors into the equation, the two-mount system would be the way to go.

Of course, it's important to note that all pre-fab parts are dual mount and that the single mount would have to either be fabricated or cut out of a real six and welded into a conversion car. I guess that means it's dual time ...

Or, I guess that means I'm an overanalyzing idiot ... you take your pick.

sleepdoc · 09-23-2003, 08:38 PM

Hi

John Rogers

In your original post this picture shows the clutch,throttle,
and speedo cables covered with an orange jacket and some white bubbly goop.

What is the cover and the goop. My cables running along next to the headers are melting and I have to protect them. What has been your experience?

thanks Mark

John Rogers · 09-23-2003, 09:39 PM

The cover is what is called "Fire Sleeving" and I had two layers, one inside the other and the white weird looking stuff was left over aluminum backed glass insulation that was put on over the sleeving to try to keep the cables from melting with the large four we had. Things got so hot the glass insulation would sort of melt so we removed it once the six was in as the underside of it is much cooler??!!

hars914 · 09-24-2003, 02:59 AM

It seems like the Patrick Motorsports mount is the way to
go. Thanks for all the info. All I need now is to find an oil
tank. Anyone have one for sale?

hars914 · 09-24-2003, 03:59 AM

I went to Patrick Motor sports web site and see that they also sell
an engine bar which mounts to the stock mounting points.
Has anyone used this method?

John Rogers · 09-24-2003, 05:12 AM

The bar you mentioned is the one people used to have trouble with. I'd say go with the newer model and it would probably work better in the long run.

hars914 · 09-24-2003, 06:23 AM

Thanks John
That is why I ask the experts

Mr9146 · 09-24-2003, 07:42 AM

Hey, Hars, read my posts. The engine bar is exactly what I was talking about.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

The mount that we sell is also very good--from what I can tell, it is every bit as good as the Patrick one.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/9144/POR_9144_sixcon_pg1.htm#item2

Quite possibly better--particularly for a street car--as it looks like the Patrick one has no rubber vibration dampers.

Several people have had problems with the bar mount. (Where's MikeZ when you need him??) At least one person had it fail quickly, and was told "gee that's too bad--wanna buy the improved version for full price?" Mind you, this was quite a few years back, but still...

--DD

jabb · 09-24-2003, 09:17 AM

I think if u read carefully through the posts u will see more people recommend the Firewall (rich Johnson mount) rather than the PMS bar mount....

hars914 · 09-24-2003, 09:52 AM

WELL DAVE YOU SOLD ME. I PLAN ON PURCHASING YOUR UNIT
WITH THE MOUNTS.

fetus · fetus's Garage

I've been running the Rich Johnson mount for 2.5 years now with a 3.2.
It works awesome.
It's also a perfect fit for 914-6 factory heat exchangers.
I had Otto's install it in Venice Beach.

Steve